Ep. 349: Dismantling Entrepreneurial Burnout with Jasmin Haley

Shannon Mattern: Welcome to episode 349 of Pep Talks for Side Hustlers. And I am so excited to introduce you to today's guest Jasmin Haley. I could not wait to have her on the show after she spoke at our Side Hustle to Self Employed Summit earlier this year, Jasmin is an award-winning national speaker, podcaster, pro-educator, author, and biz growth strategist. She is the founder of the Breakthrough to Excellence Network where she helps women business owners create a business that supports their vision and streamlines their focus so that they can scale their impact, income and influence. And her philosophy focuses on building your confidence and the business structure to support your goals without sacrificing what you most love in life. And that is why I'm so excited to have her on the show today. We totally bonded on the summit. And Jasmin, thank you so much for being here. Can you just share a little bit more with our listeners about what brought you to the place where you're doing all of these incredible things?

Jasmin Haley: Thank you. Well, first of all, thank you Shannon for having me on the show. My journey has been wild to say the least. I would have never imagined that I would be doing what I'm doing today. I had a love affair with teeth since the age of 13, went to a specialized high school to get certified as a dental assistant, went off to college, was the first of my siblings to do so, and wanted to go down the ranks of the dental world. That's where I wanted to be. I wanted to be a dentist and serve people. I eventually became a dental hygienist and decided to start my family and not pursue for the education as a dentist. And that led me down the world of public health, serving persons who have compromised immune systems, such as persons living with HIV, those that are dealing with substance use disorder. And I left clinical practice to become a teacher. I wound up teaching full-time in an academic setting in a college. And what I did not realize was that the toxic work environment that I was in was going to teach me a valuable lesson that will change the trajectory of my entire life. So what I came to realize was that unhealed trauma that I never dealt with, being in a chronic stress environment, not setting up my boundaries to take care of myself, led me down the path of burnout. And I wind up after the death of my mother spiraling out of control with grief, with a debilitating pain and sickness. And it wasn't until a year after she passed away that my five-year-old daughter saw me on the floor in pain. And the pain wasn't associated with any sort of illness other than chronic stress, other than being in a toxic work environment and not making the necessary changes I needed to make in my professional life.

Jasmin Haley: So I wound up leaving that toxic work environment and started my business. And I went into the world of dentistry, started going out there, speaking, talking about all the things I love, started hosting events, doing amazing things in the dental world. I decided in 2019 I was going to pivot and do the work that I'm doing now, which is to help other women who are burnt out, who are overworked and getting them to a place where they can build their business vision without sacrificing the time that they have with their family, without sacrificing their health, and really be able to bless their family financially, but also feel ultimately fulfilled and happy. And there are so many of us, unfortunately, who are burnt out and who are unhappy behind the scenes. We look perfect, you know, perfect hair, makeup, all of that stuff, and we're suffering behind the scenes. And so I took one scenario from one different work of life, into a whole new scenario or industry because I love working in entrepreneurship. So I no longer work with teeth, but I still speak on those subjects. I love what I do. So yeah, that's it, that's pretty much the rundown there.

Shannon Mattern: That is a winding journey to where you are today, but it all makes sense. It all fits together. I just remember when you came to speak at the Side Hustle to Self-Employed Summit, just having chills the whole time you were talking. Everything that you said resonated with me so much. I had bumped up against burnout many, many times in my entrepreneurial journey. And the irony is I started my side hustle to escape a job that I would consider also a pretty toxic work environment. But what I ended up doing, because I didn't understand, I ended up recreating the very same situation that I left, you know, because I didn't know any better. I didn't know different ways to work. I didn't know that it could be different. I just modeled what I had seen and never really healed from any of that. And so it's so interesting because we met at the Side Hustle to Self-Employed Summit that I hosted. Everybody loved your session. We'll have to link up to the all access pass for you guys so that you can get your hands on that. But I was so burnt out after that summit too. I hit a wall after that and that's when I was like, okay, I did it to myself again. I did it to myself again. This has got to stop. So tell me how you help entrepreneurs with burnout. Where do you start with people like us who are coming out of... I would venture to say that just corporate altogether, not necessarily the most healthy work environment, whether you have a really toxic work environment or it's just not a supportive work environment, transitioning out of that into entrepreneurship. And I don't know, that's a whole loaded question. So how do you help women entrepreneurs through that?

Jasmin Haley: Everything that I do is focused on creating a legacy because we have to think of something bigger than ourselves. Unfortunately. Here's the deal. From the work that I spent in serving vulnerable populations, I have been specialized in training and learning about adverse childhood experiences. So I'm a master ACE presenter and the state that I used to reside in as a healthcare provider. And what I've learned is that many of us, it doesn't matter what ethnic background you come from, it doesn't matter the socioeconomic background, different demographics, many of us have dealt with some form of trauma as a child, and even as adults. And when we notice a repeated inclination to certain types of responses, such as overloading ourselves and saying yes to people that you know deep down inside you need to say no to, or constantly people pleasing, or constantly filling up your schedule to the point that you have no place to breathe.

Jasmin Haley: It is often because of some sort of trauma response. That's what it is. Ultimately. It doesn't matter who I've spoken to or what I've seen in my own life. We are responding based on some sort of coping mechanism that we have learned and we're responding unconsciously. So the first step is self-awareness. And a lot of times when I have people come into my Legacy Scaler program, we have to first talk about what is it that you really want. We don't take time to talk about what is it that I want. So, right after this podcast recording, I'm going into a three-hour intensive with someone who says that they want something particular, but everything that they have outlined in their pre-work before our call has shown that they are not building towards that. So the first step is understanding how our own actions are self-sabotaging us from reaching the greatest heights of our full potential or honoring our God given purpose. And a lot of times we're in the way because there's unhealed things that we haven't gone through. We haven't forgiven people along our journey. We haven't really tapped into things that we may be repeating that we saw our parents do or not do. I firmly believe that we all have to come to a place where we make an ironclad commitment to internal transformation. That is the only way that we can fully step in to our role as a CEO, and be able to still honor ourselves with full integrity so that we can have a life outside of our business. And until we get to a place where we feel like we deserve that, and that we're worthy of that, we're going to keep doing things that lead us down the road of burnout.

Jasmin Haley: And I had to learn that myself and I see myself do it over and over again. And it's like, all right, Jas. I understand my triggers now. Let me make sure that I check in with myself the way I need to check in with myself on a regular basis to make sure that I'm on the path of where my purpose is supposed to lead me and not down this destructive path that unconsciously I'm building out, because our brains are very powerful. Which is why I highly recommend a book called What Happened To You by Oprah and Dr. Perry. And if you know that you have dealt with some challenging circumstances, you need to understand that we need a level of grace towards ourselves. We have to start that journey of understanding where our unconscious decisions are stemming from. Where are they? Where are those lies? And then look for those triggers as you move forward in your life. And it's ever evolving. It's never going to be solved in just one sitting. I got to tell that for those a list checkers, those task checkers. Okay. I'm one of those. It's never going to end. I just want y'all to know. But we continuously work towards being better every single day.

Shannon Mattern: Oh my gosh. I'm so glad you're here to talk about this because we think that if we just had this next coaching program, or we just had this course. I want to build this business because I want freedom, flexibility, financial independence. I want out of this toxic work environment. I want to be able to do what I want to do when I want to do it without having to ask anybody. Right? That's me. And probably every single person listening to this podcast. But we don't know what we don't know. And it's not about learning another skill or another strategy or another tactic. What I have discovered, and since running up against burnout in the summit, I've started this work. So it's fascinating that you're here talking about it because I've gone into a coaching program that's business, but it's not business. It's literally helping me work through all of these things. Like, why am I people pleasing? Why am I hoarding money? Why am I not hiring help? And it's all comes down to trust issues and why don't I trust? And why am I afraid to be generous? And you know, all of these things. And just exactly like you said, it is my natural response to protecting myself that has manifested itself through all of these different things, and it will come up in a thousand different ways, but I'm just putting the scenario of business on it now. Well, I'm still going to behave the same way in business that I behaved at my day job by not saying no because I don't want people to not like me or I have to be easy. I love that you have, you guys can't see this, but Jasmin has Unapologetically Me behind her. And that's one of the things where I felt like I couldn't be unapologetically me. Like I had to be what you wanted me to be to be successful. And I needed to be successful to take care of myself because I can't rely on anybody else to take care of me, but me. And so what does that turn into? An overworking, crazy person who is burnt out constantly and doing stuff she doesn't want to do all the time. So it's fascinating that you're here talking about that because, just like what you said, you have this person who says, I want all of these things in my business, but she's not working towards any of that. And you don't even know why. You're like, I want it, but why am I doing this to myself?

Jasmin Haley: Yeah. And it's so much deeper than strategy. That's why a huge part of the work that I do focuses on that inner transformation first. Because there's a reason why you're stalled. There's a reason why you've plateaued. There's a reason why you're in the pit of despair right now. Let's get to that first. Because I can teach you funnels. I can tell you exactly how to do a slow funnel. I can teach you exactly how to set up your content, to create your framework. And all of that will go to the wayside if you don't fix what's going on with you. And I really love the fact that you brought that out. We want more freedom, but yet we chain ourselves to every aspect of our business. We cannot do this alone. But many of us, just like me, and you as you've expressed, feel safer when we can control what's going on. We feel safer. We just feel safer. There's just too many variables. If you add three other hires, there's too many variables. But we also have to understand that to really get to our business goals, there has to be some sort of faith in it and relinquishing it out. You can prepare. You can set up your SOPs. You can set up exactly what your processes are. And there are ways in which we can stop sabotaging ourselves, with the way that we hire individuals based on their actual strengths, helping them come into our business where they can actually help support us towards our goal. That way we can let go more. There's ways that we can strategically work around that. But holding everything in and not allowing systems or the right hire to help you scale and grow your business isn't the answer. It's going to lead you to a place where you'll be no good for anyone, including the people that you love.

Shannon Mattern: Yeah, absolutely. And even if you do get to the point where you're hiring...so case in point, right? Right after the summit, I was so burnt out and I was like, okay I only planned for this summit. I didn't do any planning for what my business would look like after the summit. This is done. So now I have all of this other stuff to do, and it's only me. Not only me, I do have two team members, but I'll get to the point. I'm about to just shut half of my business down. I'm going to go all in on my web designer academy. I'm going to close the podcast down. I'm not doing the summit again. I'm shutting down the Website Marketing Lab that I do. And I'm keeping my free DIY web design training, Web Designer Academy, the rest of it gone. Shutting it down. So it was talking to a friend in my mastermind group about this. And she was like, you're insane. You just need help. Like, let me help you. And I was like, oh, relief. Okay, perfect. I trust you. I have known you for three years. I know you're incredible at what you do. Amazing. So someone I trust tells me I need to hire her to help. So I do. And it's all great for a month. And then what do I do? I start taking stuff back. It's not happening fast enough. It's not happening the way I would do it. I start doing stuff before my team can do it. I just start taking it back. And then I start thinking, why am I paying people if I'm just doing all the work myself. Right? And so that's when I started working on these deeper issues that we're talking about. Because that cycle has happened two or three times in my business before where I don't even let my team help me. I hire people and I don't even let them help me. And then I make it a problem. So it's me working on trust, patience, not being in a lone Wolf. Just like you said, adverse childhood experiences. Why do I think I'm the only one? Why do I not let anybody else take care of me ever? Even if they're begging to help take care of me.

Jasmin Haley: And I hate asking for help.

Shannon Mattern: Oh yeah.

Jasmin Haley: That's another one. It's a measure of vulnerability. And as I'm hearing you talk, I'm like, man, Shannon, we are so similar. We're like twins, but we look nothing alike. Right? Because it's exactly everything that I have dealt with. And even my clients have dealt with. And more than the strategy, more than anything, was an inner work that I needed. So working through vulnerability and shame, and doing the work that, Brene' Brown talks about, was very pivotal for me changing. Getting into therapy, I'm in therapy right now. That was something that's really important for me because why is it that we have so many women right now struggling with growing and scaling their businesses. We're indoctrinated every single day from society on how women should show up, just in general. Right? And then we add into it circumstances that were outside of our control as children. Or even as an adult, we may have experienced trauma.

Jasmin Haley: And again, those are the things that unconsciously are shaping us every single day, every decision that we make within our business. So I implore any of you that are stuck, or have been in that hamster wheel of doing it over and over again, have tried 50 million different programs out there, more than likely the work needs to first happen with you. Before you go down the route again of choosing what's going to happen next in your business. And that's a critical part that leaves many people uncomfortable. It's a hard place to be in, to look at yourself in the mirror and really see all the stuff that you really don't want to see. Right? You want everything to be perfect and nice. But if you don't tackle those things, there's nothing I can do, nothing that anyone can do, that can help you stick to the plan that's necessary to build your multi six-figure business and beyond. Because the thing is, once I reached six figures in my business, I was still entrepreneurial broke.

Jasmin Haley: I was still like, oh my gosh, this is it? Like you finally get to that place. And then I realized, man, I need to be able to serve more people. I need to be able to charge higher prices, but I couldn't do that without having a team. I couldn't do that without letting some things go and really building a business based on what is it that I desire and not what the latest expert or guru was telling me to do. Because that's another thing. Not only do we have issues with our own selves, we don't have boundaries that we set up for our clients. We don't have boundaries that we set up for the gurus or the experts that we go to. We think that their word is bond and that we must follow everything that they do. Copy and Paste Central. Okay. And then we're unhappy. So I think that this is a really great discussion that we're having. Yeah. I can talk about the strategy all day, but until you really tap into this fundamental piece, you're going to find that many of us are going to continue to struggle with growing our businesses.

Shannon Mattern: Oh my gosh. Yes. And you know, when I hit six figures, I wasn't entrepreneurially broke, but I was burnt out. I literally had a conversation with somebody where I was like, I'm good here. I cannot possibly see growing this business beyond this, even though one part of me is like, you can help so many more people. And the other part of me was like, I can't do it. Like I'm done. I'm tapped out. I can't go any further. And I was like willing to just settle right there. And my friend said to me, you've outgrown your dream. And I was like, you know what? You're right. I have. I really, really do want to help more people, but I also don't want to be a miserable millionaire or a miserable person. And so if it feels this hard now when I've hit the elusive six figure mark, I was like, if it's this hard and miserable here, I don't want to 10 X that! No, there's no way. And so I'm the kind of person who could push through a whole lot of discomfort and misery for the pursuit of the "greater goal", not realizing that it's not even supposed to be this way on the way to six figures. Yes, that's it

Jasmin Haley: Yes, that's it! Yes. That's it! You know, there's ways that we can simplify scaling our business even when we're near or at the six figure mark. You don't need every single tool that's out there, right? You need a good offer. You need a way to take a payment and you need a way to communicate with your community. That's it. And once you reach that mark, now we're really looking at what are the systems do I need to put in place? How can I leverage my offer and get it to a place where it's scalable? I can serve more people without burning myself out. What parts of my business structure do I need so I can still organically market, but also be able to hire the right people to support me so I can finally be the CEO that I was always meant to be?

Jasmin Haley: And we can do that in our business and work less hours. You don't have to work a 40 hour week. You really don't have to work a 40 hour week. But until we start talking more about that, until we start looking at why we're making certain decisions, until we start getting ourselves organized. I like to use the acronym, OBO. Organized, Boundaries - setting up your boundaries and your business and your life. And then Outsourcing. Sometimes the outsourcing does not have to be within our business. It can be getting a housekeeper. It could be doing a meal planning kit. It can be hiring a nanny. And I'm talking specifically for me. You know, many of us may not have children, but for me those are the things that I needed to give me a chance to breathe a little bit. Because we have a lot on our plate. We're managing households, we're managing our business. We're managing just ourselves. But the biggest challenge for most people is acquiring self-leadership. And until we can lead ourselves through this crazy world of entrepreneurship, it's going to be tough,

Shannon Mattern: Man. And just thinking, you do have to acquire self leadership in order to step away from the corporate world or whatever, where you're not independent and autonomous in most roles getting to do that. But at the same time, it all circles back to you can get people organized to give them boundaries and help them outsource and tell them all the things. But until they've healed all of the things that cause them to continuously not do those things, they're not gonna do those things. I would continuously, like you said, repeat the same patterns over and over, but it'd be like, oh, I made a little bit more money this time. Let me repeat it. I made a little bit more money this time. Like I was being almost rewarded for my dysfunctional behavior. Because I'm like, oh, I can just keep working harder. I can just keep working harder. I can just keep working harder. And then, you know, not realizing that it's not supposed to be that way. So I'm just the kind of person that I could be organized, have boundaries and outsource and still make it hard and still overload and still have all my priorities all out of whack. Put my family last, put my business first. So yeah, this whole topic of fixing all of the underlying things. And then it's like, oh my gosh, I feel free and present and capable and worthy before I've even started earning money in my business. You know what I mean? Like, oh wait, I didn't need that to feel all of this. I didn't need to build this whole business to validate myself. You know? So it's just such a fascinating conversation.

Jasmin Haley: Yeah, absolutely. And I think what's really important for anyone to know, especially if you're currently dealing with these challenges that may arise, is understanding that you don't have to be all completely fixed to have a successful business. Understand that this is not an overnight process. This is a day-to-day conscious decision to do better for yourself. Bottom line. You know, we love our kids. We love our mates. We love our family. But bottom line is making conscious decisions to do better for yourself. That is the first step. And understanding that it's going to be a process and you can still build your business right now through all of that muddied water that may be going in through your mind at some point in time.

Shannon Mattern: It almost makes it easier to build your business while you're going through all of that, because you're like, oh, that's why I keep doing this. You become aware, and then you can kind of shift out of it. I almost start to notice myself, like I see myself doing it, I'm going to do the opposite. I see myself doing it. I'm going to do the opposite. This is me getting lots of coaching and help to do it. Like not on my own. Because I've got that lone Wolf syndrome where I have noticed if someone offers to help me with something and I'm like, no, no, I got it, I'm then like, wait, because I said, "no, no, I got it", I am going to actually now turn around and say, yes, I will take you up on that. Even if I believe in my little brain that' no, I don't really need their help. I got this. What do they have to offer me? I don't need their help'. And then I say yes, because I'm like, no, I'm going to do the opposite of what my mind says. And then I'm like, I'm so glad I said yes, because that gave me so much more than I would've ever been able to do on my own. So I just keep continuously testing myself, I guess is the only way I can describe it.

Jasmin Haley: Yeah. Finding out where those triggers are and then saying, you know what, when this situation comes about again, here's how I'm going to handle it. So I think, you know, one of the things that I've heard recently, her name is Cynthia, she's a coach, and she was just talking about sales, just sales in general. And she was saying how we should approach sales with curiosity. I feel like in life in general, we should approach it with curiosity. Even in our own business or in our life when we're considering the next steps that we should take. When it comes to entrepreneurship, I liken it to driving in a car. And I don't know if you've ever had any of those like really foggy, snow days or it's raining really hard and you can't see but only so far ahead. You may turn on your windshield wipers fast, you put on your high beams, and it's still limited. And that's how business is. We just are taking small steps at a time. And we won't know at what point if something is going to work or not. But the best place you can be in is in a place of peace and true freedom of knowing that, Hey, I trust myself, I trust my gut. I'm aligned with what makes me feel good in this process. And I'm curious on what the outcome would be. And when you learn to relinquish that, that's when you'll get more of those clients. That's when you'll get more of the money. That's when you'll get the ability to allow others to come in and assist you. You'll be able to serve in a fuller capacity than anything that you've ever imagined. It's just a matter of really getting into a place of being honest with yourself and looking at how is it every single day am I establishing my legacy? And our legacy is established every day with every decision we make. It's not what we leave behind. It's more than what we leave behind for our children. It's decisions that we make every single day

Shannon Mattern: That is powerful, powerful stuff. And I was just thinking about this too, where my business used to be the thing that I did to protect myself, to make sure that I made enough money, to make sure my bills got paid, to make sure I could take care of me. And I don't have kids, so I'm sure I would think if I did, it'd be to take care of my kids and my family. But it really was to protect me and take care of my immediate needs. And so therefore I've got to keep it all close. And when you talk about legacy, and I think it's just the shift that I've gone through, it's like, oh my business exists to enrich the lives of the people who are my customers and my clients, the people who are on my team. I want to be the best work environment that they could ever possibly have - the opposite of what you and I had in corporate.

Shannon Mattern: And just thinking about the thing that we do in this online business space where we do have these products. You have a book. I want to ask you about that in a second. But there's someone that's picked up your book and read it and it's changed their life. And you've never even met that person. There's someone who's taken my free DIY web design training, built a website, gone on to build a business. And I've never met that person. And I feel like I had to dismantle that, and I still am, you know. It's not dismantled, the box isn't checked. Dismantle all of the things that happened throughout my life that caused me to need to so fiercely protect myself. And I love thinking about legacy now because I always felt like, well, I don't have kids, so I don't need to think about that. I just got to take care of me while I'm here. We're good. And it's completely shifted. So yeah.

Jasmin Haley: Just thinking about what you shared, and I appreciate you so much for being vulnerable, what if you were able to walk into a room and just know, or walk into your office space and walk into your next decision in your business and know that you're already safe,

Shannon Mattern: Right? Yeah. You can't make a wrong decision.

Jasmin Haley: Yes. Right. It just transforms everything. And so for me, one of the biggest things for me learning was that success is our birthright. When I learned that success was our birthright and that no one, no man, nothing could take away what God has gifted me and what he set for for me in my life, that just changes everything. Like what's all of this worrying about? If I came from the streets of Jamaica, Queens, grew up in the projects, grew up in a single parent home. I didn't know what in the world I was doing when I was pursuing higher education. I decided to move away from my mother, away from everyone that I knew, and somehow some way I made it through. And I have an amazing husband, I have amazing children. I'm still here. We're about to move into our dream home. These are things that I didn't even think was possible for me as a child.

Jasmin Haley: And yet, somehow, some way, I made it through. Even the most challenging circumstances that I could have ever thought of, that I thought wasn't even possible for me to get through, I made it through. And yet, despite the fact that I've dealt with these traumas, I'm a mental health warrior. I still deal with depression and anxiety. It doesn't magically go away. I still decide to show up. Showed up for this podcast interview, shared from the heart. Because I know that maybe there's just that one listener, that one person that just needed to hear that someone else went through it, and they've been able to get through it and be able to pursue their goals no matter how messy it is. And so that's why I get up every single day. And when we think about that, that's the reason why I wrote my book, Breakthrough to Excellence.

Jasmin Haley: It's a point for us to really see that we have to get out of this fear. We're not guaranteed another day. Let's make it count and choose joy. And choosing joy and choosing to live in a legacy driven mindset, it has to be planned out and you have to give it some forethought and understand that it's not always easy, but it's certainly worth it. And we didn't get into business to be chained to our business, to be miserable, to feel unfulfilled. So stop getting in our own way.

Shannon Mattern: Oh my gosh. Tell me more about Breakthrough to Excellence. I cannot wait to read it. It's been on my list for the past several months. Tell me more. You told me why you wrote the book. Who is it for?

Jasmin Haley: You know, I honestly really wrote this book for my daughters because there were so many things that I wish someone really took the time to explain to me. I was a latchkey kid. My mom didn't really have the time to really explain certain things I had to learn, you know, through Full House and whatever else was on TV. Family Matters. She did what she could and there's no harm, no foul with that or anything like that. But she did what she could. My 12 year old has read my book. My nine-year-old is not interested right now, but maybe one day she'll read it. Right? But I really wrote it for them. But most importantly for the women that I serve that are still stuck. I have clients who are like, they could be my mother, you know? I have clients who I have such a high regard and respect for, and they have told me what it's like for them. The regrets that they felt by being chained by fear and not moving forward. And so that is why I wrote that book. And right now when I look at it, I kind of cringe. I'm like, Ooh, I wrote that. But it was for that Jasmin at that time. I'm already ready for my next one. I'm already thinking okay, what's this next book going to be about? But it was for those who really want to break through to that next level of excellence, to look at strategies, to look at science, to see how chronic stress and burnout affects our bodies, but also what decisions do we need to make to choose a life for ourselves based on what we desire. Not what anyone else wants, but what we desire. So I wrote it in the lens of for a woman, and I wrote it in the lens of those who are considering entrepreneurship as well. Because that's the world that I'm in. And I think it's important to start this journey and to start this discussion of what does your level of excellence look like for you?

Shannon Mattern: I think that one of the things that I see in coaching my clients and my students, as somebody who leads somebody through a transformation, the thing that would frustrate me the most would be when I'm like, Hey, here is the strategy. Here's everything. Why aren't you doing it? I did it, it worked for me. It's my responsibility now, I think, not only to myself, but to everybody who I work with, who I serve, to give them this missing piece of the puzzle, you know? And I'm not equipped to do that, but that's why I love meeting people like you and learning about this and thinking, okay, this is the key that helps unlock all of these other pieces.

Shannon Mattern: Because the part that I do is strategic and tactical. And there is some mindset to it, sure. But I can give you new ways to think all day long, but that doesn't take into account at all any of the things that led you to thinking the way that you think. We can hear new things all the time. And sometimes those things do shift something in us without having to do the deeper work. So you're like, oh, I wrote this for these women. I wrote this for these clients. I'm sure that you look at them and you see the potential in them, and you see what they're capable of and you want to give them all of the tools. Not just some of the tools, all of the tools to create that freedom that they've always wanted. For a lot of us, the job is not going to do that. For a lot of people, the job does that, the day job does that. For a lot of us, we want more than that. I don't know if it was you that said this, it's like, oh, then I feel guilty for wanting more. Right?

Jasmin Haley: Well, we feel guilty when everything, for some of us, when everything is kind of calm. Your schedule is free and you can just putz around and watch Netflix. Is there something wrong? And I'm still making money. There's a guilt with that also. And that's why we constantly fill our plate up. Or we make kind of crazy decisions. We equate success with that burnout. Or we equate it with being overworked. Or we equate it with constantly charging too little for the work that we're doing, where we know the value is so much higher. We keep repeating that over and over again because somewhere, somehow we feel that that is... I don't even know how to describe it because it's so complicated. Like that's the way it should be. Their success doesn't come without struggle.

Shannon Mattern: Yeah. And I think for me the thing that comes up while you're saying that is I feel guilty not working when other people are working on my team. If I'm literally laying around and watching Netflix, but I know that they're working on something, I'm like, well, I should be doing that. I should be a team player. My hands should be on this. It's not right for them to be doing it if I'm not doing it. And it's like, that's not true. These are things that you think that are not true because what you're really thinking is what are they gonna think about me? They're going to think I'm the lazy boss that's just sitting on her butt, watching Netflix and eating bon-bons while they're doing all the hard work. That's what you're really thinking.

Shannon Mattern: And that's why you really think that you need to be in there. Not because you're so selfless and want to go help them. It's because you're worried about what they'll think about you. And that's the part that you need to clean up. And that's the work I'm doing now because I, like you, don't want to help other people build dysfunctional businesses. I have a community of thousands of entrepreneurs that I want to lead by example. And I don't want to lead by the example of you have to be an overworked, burnt out, workaholic to be successful in your business. That is doing them all a disservice to teach them how to build a business in a very dysfunctional, messed up way that's going to not create freedom for them. So I think that's also part of my legacy. Speaking to people like you and collaborating with people like you and bringing people like you to them. To say, Hey, I've realized six years in that financially this is successful. But t's at a crossroads, right?. It's at a crossroads.

Jasmin Haley: Yes. And I literally just posted something about a six-figure crossroads yesterday.

Shannon Mattern: I did not see that.

Jasmin Haley: But it's true. We all get to that place. We all get there and we have to make a decision. And fundamentally, you know, a lot of the conversations, like what you just shared, is ultimately what we think. It may not be what the people we're working with think. They're not even thinking about that. It's the ego driven stories that we create that have nothing to do with reality. And so I love the fact that you share that and gave that as an example, because it doesn't go away no matter how successful you are. So if you want to get to a place where you're working towards a level of peace and really true scalability, you've got to tackle those things. Because they're not going to serve you well the higher you get up the ranks of getting to that million dollar business.

Shannon Mattern: So for people who are listening that are like, all of this is resonating with me, everything that they're saying, that's me, and I don't want to be a burnout, overworked, miserable millionaire, or six-figure, whatever you want. How do you work with people? What's your program like to create this transformation of preventing the burnout in the first place. Tell me all about what it's like to work with you.

Jasmin Haley: So I have one program that's called the Legacy Scaler Program. And it focuses on three steps for our framework. First is the confidence. The second is curating. And the third is creating. So when we look at the way that we're building our confidence, understanding what our strengths are, understanding that success is our birthright, that we're deserving of it, finding out where the trash is coming from. Because that's what it is. It's straight trash. Where is that coming from first before we actually set up the steps to create and curate our business vision. And when we set up the systems and our offers and our marketing, the curate and create phase is going to be aligned with what matters to you. And that's where we need to be. And stepping into that role as a CEO is going to require you to have strong self-leadership skills and be able to be in a position where when you go out there and you're getting visible, you're not harming others with things that make you burnt out. Right? So that's what I focus on. And my people tend to like working with me one-on-one and I love doing that. We do have a new group program that will be coming out because, just like you all, I'm looking at other ways I can build my information into a scalable offer that will get people results and do so in a transformative way.

Jasmin Haley: So my Legacy Scaler Program is done in intensives and my clients also work with me in long-term one-on-one coaching. But we also have a program that is going to be our incubator that will allow people to do so in a mastermind group setting. All of my groups are very small because I feel that every single business owner needs to get out of the cookie cutter approach to business development and really focus on creating something that's custom and tailored to their business and their needs for their family life. And so that's the work that I do. I have those core principles with confidence, curate and create. And then I focus on six pillars that will set up the business foundation for you to be able to scale in a simplified way without the chaos.

Shannon Mattern: Which is everybody's dream life, right? I love that you have one-on-one, but also I've personally found participating in group programs that my mind just gets blown. Someone's experience could be completely different, but it opens up something for me. And so I used to kind of shy away from that, or watch the replays or whatever it was. And then I was like, there's so much value in being with other like-minded people who have the same goals, but have a completely unique experience and you learn so much. And I personally feel like it's more of a rich experience being able to do that with other people. So we have just a few minutes left and I wish we had three more hours. I wish I was doing that intensive with you next. But I have just a couple of questions for you that I ask everybody. Well, I'm gonna ask you the one that I ask everybody on the shows so I want to make sure we have enough time. And that is what belief about yourself did you have to change to get where you are today?

Jasmin Haley: Ooooh! I needed to believe that I was worthy of success. There was a measure of guilt in the fact that I got a college degree and my siblings hadn't. There was some measure of difficulty for some of the decisions that they've made in their life. And I even had some interesting conversations. So I needed to get to a place where I felt I was deserving of it and not to compare myself. I heard a lady say once that comparison to others is a mockery to God. And I was comparing myself and thinking that I needed to be a certain kind of way other than what I was. So understanding I was worthy. And all of the things that people used to complain about in my past were actually gifts that I had. And I had to realize that and come to terms with that and understand that I was blessed and it was important for me to take all of that and share my story to help set some other people free.

Shannon Mattern: Wow. That is so, so powerful. And the worthy belief comes up, I would say, 70% of the time when I ask this question. So the work that you do is so, so needed in this space. So where can everybody go to connect with you, find out more about you, get the book, get the podcast. All things Jasmin Haley. Where could they go?

Jasmin Haley: They can go to jasminhaley.com. I'm a Jasmin without anE y'all. So it's jasminhaley.com. And they can find me on Instagram. I accept DMs. It's a whole different thing now when people say slide into your DMS now, right? So it's @it'sjasminhaley. That's where you'll find me.

Shannon Mattern: Awesome. And I'll link all of that stuff up in the show notes. So you guys can go to shannonmattern.com/349 to get all the links to everything that we talked about today. Jasmin, I cannot thank you enough for being here. Literally, we need to something else again, because I love talking to you. Your message is what everybody needs. I need to hear it, but I know everybody else needs to hear it too. So thank you so much for being here.

Jasmin Haley: Thank you for having me Shannon. And it was a real pleasure.