I'm so excited to introduce you to this week's guest on Pep Talks for Side Hustlers, Paul Klein of Bizable TV!
Paul Klein is a business consultant and entrepreneur. From his days as a 1980s hair band guitarist and lifelong entrepreneur to starting and scaling a successful SAAS company to consulting for some of the biggest brands including Target, Neiman Marcus, Starbucks, Holiday Inn, and other global brands, Paul helps Consultants, Freelancers, and Solopreneur’s price their services, stop undercharging in order to build 7 figure businesses.
Paul is the host of the BizableTV podcast (formerly the Pricing Is Positioning Podcast) and Co-Founder Producer for BizableTV. BizableTV is a Netflix-style streaming service for entrepreneurs launching in January 2022 and will be accessible on over 1000 devices including iOS devices, Android devices, Macs, PCs, streaming media boxes such as Roku, Apple TV, Android TV, and FireTV.
And guess what? My story is being featured on Bizable TV! Whaaaaat? Yep, you read that right. You can get access to my first episode for free and get a juicy discount on a subscription here.
Push play to listen to this week's episode, or read the full transcript below!
Connect with Paul:
- Paul's Website
- Listeners of Pep Talks for Side Hustlers can get FREE Insiders Access to some of BizableTV's early films, insider-only updates, and special offers HERE
- Get Shannon's First Episode Free!
Shannon Mattern: Welcome to episode 373 of Pep Talks for Side Hustlers. And I am so excited to be joined again today with my friend Paul Klein of Bizable TV. Uh, Paul joined us back in episode 220, which I'll link up in the show notes. We talked about all the things, but we talked about pricing, positioning, how to price and sell your services. And I'm excited to have Paul back on the show today to talk about what's been going on since we last talked, his new venture and all the things. So Paul, thank you so much for being here today.
Paul Klein: Oh man. Thank you for having me Shannon. And I'm honored to be able to be a two-time guest. So this is awesome.
Shannon Mattern: I'm so excited to dig in to today's episode. So last we spoke, you were living in California, you had a podcast called Pricing is Positioning. And fast forward to today, we just wrapped up my interview on your new TV channel network, Bizable TV, which I'm so excited to share with you guys. So tell me the story of what's been happening since you were last on the show.
Paul Klein: Well, like you Shannon, us entrepreneurs, we're always moving and thinking of new things and everything. But yeah, since the pandemic, I think that interview was before the pandemic, wasn't it?
Shannon Mattern: I agree. It is just an awesome idea. Because even though I love those shows, I couldn't relate, right? Either they were so far beyond where I was at in my business journey or just doing something unlike anything I was doing. And while it was inspiring to watch, and I learned a lot, it didn't really feel like I could relate or nothing really resonated with me. And I love listening to podcasts too, but that's a solo thing. Typically you've got your earbuds in, you're driving or walking the dog or doing dishes or cleaning the house, you know. I'm always doing something else when I'm listening to a podcast. And I love the idea of just kicking back and just watching those stories, cuz like you said, It's like a whole experience.
Paul Klein: Yeah. Yeah. And it's really the whole vision behind Bizable TV is to offer that inspiration. It's not like sitting down where, okay, here's the five steps to email marketing or how to build a website. You have tons of great content on that. So it's really a behind the scenes look, in your case, into your business. And I really love your story, even though you had built websites and you were making your company tons of money, when you first told someone that you were a web designer and you're looking at moonlighting or doing something on the side, you felt like you lied or you were a fraud. And we all go through that imposter syndrome. But when Grant Cardone talks about it, or Elon Musk or Oprah, it's not really the same those of us that don't have private jets and mansions and a hundred million dollars in revenue a year, you know? And it's really the beauty of that small 5-, 6-, 7-figure business that we all do. And it's like a podcast on steroids, but you can get inspired from it. And we've got some great women on there. We have Dr. Sandra Brown coming on. She was a doctor, a medical doctor for 21 years out of Alabama, I think it was. And she had a high six or seven figure practice, full load. And then, I think it was in, 2016, she wrote a small book on how women are overwhelmed and she was working 10, 12 hours a day, come home with the kids and everything and just crash. And she was just like 'this can't be my life forever'. And so she wrote this small book. Next thing she knows, she's on a Ted talk, she's impacting thousands of people now. She sold like a hundred thousand copies of her book has, a full-on business. She dialed down her practice and left in 2019 and hasn't looked back. You and I can relate to those kinds of stories, even though we don't have a medical degree.
Shannon Mattern: Well, yeah, but I think there are so many people out there that don't even realize that there is another way, that you don't have to go to business school to do it. And I think that's what I'm so excited about, just spreading the word about this. Because I feel like it is really kind of digging into the nitty gritty of all the different ways that people are able to kind of successfully break free from corporate, or start their own business or whatever it is. And there's not just one path. There are so many different paths and it's just so important to hear all those different stories because there's something happening right now where people are craving something new, you know? Especially with the pandemic. I was looking back while you were talking. We last chatted in April of 2019. The world is completely different.
Shannon Mattern: The great resignation is upon us and people are no longer satisfied with the status quo or even feel like it was as secure as the illusion of it.
Paul Klein: Yeah. Great question. And that was really more Kendall, my business partner, Kendall Johnson from Underdog Films, the gentleman I mentioned earlier that's trained by Hans Zimmer and has Netflix background. And when you see his work you'll know why. And that was it. As you know, in this world, Shannon, you don't have to be perfect when you first launch, but good content does stand out as you refine it. And he spent years in the trenches in that world, but not in the entrepreneurial world that you and I know. So immediately, my entrepreneur mind spun. If I mentioned Shannon Mattern, Michael Hyatt, Mike Kim, Pat Flynn, Amy Porterfield, he didn't even know any of those people.
Shannon Mattern: We're gonna talk a little bit more later about where everyone can go add Bizable TV to wherever they're consuming content. But I wanna kind of come back to this idea of, you know, we feel like we should be doing these things or staying in our job. And I even feel that now, where I've started things in my business that have worked well, but maybe I don't feel so passionate about it anymore or, you know, I wanna pivot and do something different. And then that kind of back and forth of, should I let this go? Should I do this? Should I move over here? So I was wondering if you've experienced that throughout your journey since we last talked?
Paul Klein: Yeah, absolutely. And that's a great question. And just to help some of your listeners kind of with that, to give a little background, I left in '09. So Obama had just come in office, add October of '08, the stock market crashed all the way down to like 3,000 or 4,000. I mean, it was a brutal time for business. It didn't have a pandemic feel like it does now, but it was very dismal. And in April that year I left, and I had an 18 year career, $150,000 job, full benefits. All I needed to do was stay there until I was 55. But I had that niche. So, I jumped in '09. Everybody thought I was crazy. But since then I've started a different company, the SaaS company, my consulting company. But in my experience, what I haven't done is, what's the saying? Don't kill the goose that's laying the golden egg, right? I've seen some in this space go, 'you know what? I wanna do this now'. And they just drop everything rather than figure out ways to automate it, or maybe have a team take over it and continue that revenue source. Because I'm a big proponent of multiple revenue sources to ride out those highs and lows. I talk about three pillars of income, online, in person and then you're consulting and so forth. Because I've found over time that if you just rely on any one thing you're so susceptible. I mean, think of speakers. Some of your audience might be keynote speakers or wannabe speakers. Like my friend, Ken Davis, that was 90% of his income before the pandemic, and then bam, it's gone. And so being diversified. And then secondly, as you taper those things down and, and put more margin in your business and life, cuz you do lose passion on some things. Like I have that in my consulting space. So I'm really hoping Bizable will really take off. Cause I would love nothing more than to do full time going around and spending time with people like Shannon and Mike Kim and just hanging out and doing documentaries. I mean, that'd be like the perfect life for me and I could tie all that down. But I'm not gonna kill that until I have something else in place.
Shannon Mattern: Yeah. I have pivoted in my business where I'm like, oh, I still have this thing over here, but it just is running itself and I have a team supporting it. And sometimes I waiver. I'm like, do I want to shut that down completely and go all in over here? But it feels almost, again, like making the decision to leave the safe thing, but it's different. I think the thing that I have kind of figured out is, I can always figure out a way, you know? I think that that's a completely different mindset than what I had when I was feeling trapped and this is the only way.
Shannon Mattern: Oh, I love it. I love that there's strategy and reasons behind continuing on to do something that maybe you have outgrown or you no longer feel passionate about. And then also, is there an opportunity cost to continue to do this that I could be doing something different over here. I think it's just important to explore and reflect on that. And I think it's because it's like the end of 2021 when we're talking about this. That's coming up for me. It's like, Ooh, what's happening? What's gonna happen in 2022? What's next? You mentioned, you know, you can always make more money. And one of the big shifts that I have personally gone through, I think, since our last episode and now is just my money mindset like completely different. And thanks in part to you and your Pricing is Positioning podcast and everything you talk about. But, I mean, I was very scarcity minded. Money can run out. Conserve, conserve. Don't buy my time back. Spend all my time to save money. All of that. And I have completely shifted that mindset. And with that, my revenue has just exploded!
Paul Klein: Oh boy. That's a lot to unpack there.
Shannon Mattern: Loaded question, right?
Paul Klein: Yeah. But I really like to encourage people to not undervalue themselves. I mean, that was my whole premise between my podcast and some of the coaching that I was doing. And I still believe in that. And that's always just been my core thing, because I've always found, especially with women. I know you have a lot of women in your audience and women particularly struggle with that because, you know, I know a lot of women that are engineers, electricians, and they're kind of in a more male dominant thing. And so then when it comes to that whole money mindset, they feel like they're at a disadvantage. But the reality is, you're not. You just have to own it and just don't let anybody, you know, as Eleanor Roosevelt said, "nobody allows you to feel inferior except yourself", you know? And so you've gotta value yourself and lean into your experiences and everything. So that's the biggest thing. And I fluctuate with that sometimes. I get too, uh, cocky, I guess. So I'll send out a proposal. But that's what I love in my consulting business. I bid a lot of jobs, a lot of four and five figure jobs, repetitively, very similar. And so sometimes if I'm really busy, and I have a philosophy that says, 'never say no, price them to no'. And so I'll push the envelope in my industry and I'll get really high, like almost obscenely high. And sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. And I think that's the beauty of things. Try it and believe in yourself. And all that matters Is you. Not what everybody else is. Sometimes people will say, well, in my industry I can't do that. Or, you know, in this particular vertical, that's just not acceptable. Especially some industries, hourly is the only way they bill. I've been with government entities and they say, oh, we have to have your hourly rate. And I go, well, I'm sorry, you can't work with me. And then they're like, no, no, no, we wanna work with you. We'll change the rules. So you just have to have that mindset and just be strong. And I hate to say fake it till you make it. But there is some, I don't wanna say truth to that, but it's just a mindset thing. It's like really being confident, even in the face of, you know, if I don't get this job I'm not gonna be able to pay my mortgage. But you don't wanna have what is called the stench of desperation, you know? Just be confident and say, yes, it's gonna be this. And I'd be happy to work with you, and be confident. I guess that's the biggest takeaway for me, for you.
Shannon Mattern: I feel like it's the difference of where the power lies, right? It's almost like I'm inviting you to work with me
Paul Klein: Yeah. And that's okay. And right there in that crux, Shannon, you've made that switch to where, you know what? It's business. I'm not offended. You're not offended. It's not a good fit for me. It's not a good fit for you. Move on, you know? And there's nothing wrong with that. And it's empowering when you kind of can take that position because, you know, it's that least interested principle. I mean, it's obviously creating a win-win. You always wanna do that and provide tons of value. But it has to be a good fit. And sometimes your biggest play can be to refer. If your out of their price range and the client clearly thinks your prices are too high, you can say, well, let me refer you to someone else I know that probably could serve you better. That brings you so much more power and credibility. And I've done that several times over the course of my career. And then they've come back to me later once they realize you get what you pay for. I want to go with you now.
Shannon Mattern: What have you seen in the stories of people who are coming in your documentary in terms of how they really embody or empower that entrepreneur mindset
Paul Klein: Yeah. I think the common theme that I see through everybody is, number one, everybody thinks they should have it figured out, but doesn't. And so they start, or they don't wanna start, or they're apprehensive about starting because they wanna have everything figured out. But the reality is you don't figure everything out until you take the steps. It's like, I wanna be on top of that mountain over there, but I just want to, like, be there. They don't realize you have to take 2000 steps to get there. And so, they wanna have that immediate top of the mountain thing real quick. And so most of the entrepreneurs that are sharing stories are like, I tried stuff out, I wasn't ready, I made mistakes. And the second thing is that, and a lot of 'em don't even refer them as mistakes, they learn. They learn and course correct. And so, even though they've had failures or problems when they first started, they didn't look at them as mistakes or catastrophic life failures. And okay, now I gotta get a day job. They just learn from it and move on. And I think that's the biggest thing, don't be afraid to fail. It's not really failing. It's just learning what works and what doesn't. And I know with you, you've made a lot of strides with your online courses and how you market, and you've got advertising going now. And some of the things you would've done earlier probably are much different than what you would do now, knowing what you know,
Shannon Mattern: Oh, yeah! Talk about trial and error with advertising, right? I mean, I have dabbled and dipped my toe into paid ads, probably once a year since I started my business and just really testing and starting and stopping and this and that. And now, however many years into my business, seven, it's crazy, I finally decided this is a strategy I wanna pursue. And guess what? I don't have to be the expert. I'm gonna hire somebody. But that was a very winding, meandering journey to something that's really working well for me. Could I have gotten there faster? Sure. But what's the point of even thinking like that, right?
Paul Klein: Yeah. It's a continuous learning. One of the people that your audience might it really resonate with is...do you have a lot of authors by chance? What's your audience mostly?
Shannon Mattern: We have a lot of people who are potential authors, probably future authors, aspiring authors. Because they wanna kind of like stake their claim in their space, you know?
Paul Klein: Yeah. How about writers?
Shannon Mattern: Oh yeah. I'll link up Bizable TV in the show notes so you guys can go check this out. Because I'm excited to listen to all of these stories and "meet" all of these people that are like, you know, where were you when I
Paul Klein: Instagram post, everything's perfect. Yeah, it's really tying into those emotions back then and, like we did with you, all the guests we're taking them back. So that you, the listener to this podcast, can watch almost like a cinematic documentary. And even if in every episode you can get one takeaway that helps you either in life or your business, then we've achieved our goal. And that's the way we have this five-part framework that we walk each of the guests through. And it kind of starts at the beginning of your journey and all the way to the end where there's hopeful vision for everybody. It might just be an email tweak or a mindset something. Jeff Brown, one of our first guests, talked about the first time he got on a podcast. They were interviewing him. And it was on a subject that he's the only expert in the world on, and his story. They were just interviewing on his story. And he got in the zoom call, just like this, and froze. He told them his dog was barking. He said, Oh the dog just got out. I gotta take a break here. So he turned his zoom call off, went and hyperventilated in the other room and had a panic attack because he was so frozen and scared. And he's a grown man, male man, like myself, you know. I think he was 40 or 50 at the time. And it's like, you know, I can resonate with that. Cause I know how that feels. And I think we all have those moments and then the story of him overcoming that. And now he works with John Lee Dumas. You know John Lee Dumas.
Shannon Mattern: Yeah, because when I first started, I thought I had to be perfect. I thought I had to be polished. I thought I had to be whatever. I'm still not even anywhere close. I let all that go. I'm not perfect or polished, and I'm still doing awesome. So it's just refreshing and inspiring to see real people being real, succeeding and not being perfect.
Paul Klein: Exactly. Yeah. Yep. Definitely a good motivator. I wish I would've had that too.
Shannon Mattern: I know, right? I love how you're creating the thing that you wish you would've had to inspire you on your journey.
Paul Klein: Yeah. It's like like that unmet need. You think of things. But it's a great thing about the free market. You know, we may have three, might be me, you and Kendall that sign up for it
Shannon Mattern: So let's talk a little bit about the business model. How does Bizable TV work?
Paul Klein: Yeah,
Shannon Mattern: I love all of that. When I got this email from Paul, I was just like, yes! It's an instant Yes! And I think that this is something, you guys hear me talk about this all the time, my number one marketing strategy in my business has been relationship building. And when Paul first reached out to me, I wasn't like, well, how big is his audience? Who are his people? Nothing like that. I was just like, building any relationship with anyone in this space is so important. And I tell you guys this, and then what I hear back is, but I don't have an audience yet. I don't have anything to give in return. And I'm like, you might not right now, but you will in the future. You have expertise, you have value to add to someone else's audience. There is something that you have that you can give to create a relationship that can continue to develop and grow and bear fruit over time. And I love that Bizable TV really is all about that. Like, you're serving me in a huge way by exposing me to all these other people's audiences. And I'm like, how can I support? How can I support? Because we have a similar mission. We have similar values when it comes to business. And it's just a win-win. So, when I stopped trying to stay behind my laptop by myself and figure out how to hack algorithms, my whole business changed. Yeah.
Paul Klein: Yeah. It's all about those relationships. And that's what I'm really leveraging on this launch. And this is like any launch or any new product, any of you listening, put out there. Everybody that we're profiling in Bizable TV has been on my podcast, except for maybe one or two. And it's that relationship that I developed. And then as we expand and get bigger, new relationships will happen. And I get asked to be on podcasts all the time. And that's one of the great things. If you're thinking about podcasting, it opens up a lot of doors. And when I first launched the Pricing and Positioning podcast, it would've been, let's see, I think it was January '19. So, yeah, cuz you were one of the first people I asked. You were one of my first guests, I think, on my podcast. But it, anyway, the first person I had was Blair Enns, and in the pricing world, Bair Enns is right up there with Alan Weis, Ron Baker. He has a book called Pricing Creativity. Just a great resource. And I just emailed him outta the blue. I said, Hey, would you be on my podcast? I had no track record. I had no audience or anything. And I had imposter syndrome, but I just asked him. He said, yeah. And he came on. It was the worst interview. If you go back to it, it's like episode five, it had chickens in the background
Shannon Mattern: Oh, I love it. And you're giving. It's an ask, but it's a give at the same time, you know? It's something that's gonna help them get more visibility or more credibility or whatever. So, it's always mutually beneficial to develop these relationships. And I mean, I just kind of think about pitches I get in my inbox that are just like straight up clear, no way! Like no's! Because it is clear that it's just all about not what I'm all about. Yeah. So, I could talk, like I always am like, 'I could talk to you forever about all of this stuff. But unfortunately we are coming up on the end of the show. So I just wanna ask you, I think I asked you this. I ask everybody that comes on the show, so I know you've already answered this question. But maybe it's changed in the past two years. I don't know. What belief about yourself did you have to change to get to where you are today?
Paul Klein: Ooh, what belief about myself. I think early in my career... I was an only child and very shy. I was called Darky because I was a little darker than most kids
Shannon Mattern: So good. And I think that's why everyone is going to love Bizable TV and all of the stories that Paul and Kendall are bringing you on the channel because you are going to probably have more mindset shifts than you ever imagined that you wanted or needed by listening to all these stories. So can you tell everyone where can we go to learn more about Bizable TV, subscribe to Bizable.tv, everything all about Bizable TV?
Paul Klein: Yeah. The best place to go.... So, Apple and Roku don't get their cut. I don't know if I'm allowed to say that, but
Shannon Mattern: Ah, so good. I will link all of that stuff up in the show notes. shannonmattern.com/373. My coupon code will be there. So if you're listening to this later on after launch, you'll be able to get the link to Bizable and the coupon code and all of the things. Paul, thank you so, so much for being here. I really appreciate it.
Paul Klein: Oh, thank you, Shannon. I really love what you're doing. Keep up the great work. I'm so glad we became friends in this and captured your story. So thank you so much.
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