If you’re anything like me when I first started my side hustle, you might have found yourself thinking… “I already have so much to do, how am I gonna find the time to build my business too?”
But then I looked at how I was spending my time.
Waking up at 7AM and lazily watching Bravo reality TV as I slowly got ready to drag myself into a day job that I hated. Leaving for work at the last minute and trying to come home as early as possible just like everyone else, which had me sitting in rush hour traffic. Binge-watching Netflix after dinner and on lazy weekend days. Scrolling Facebook in my spare moments to see what my old high school friends were up to. Never planning ahead, always reacting to circumstances around me.
And I wished my life was different. I wished I made more money, doing something that I actually loved, that I worked from home and had more freedom.
I might have felt busy at work… but outside of work I had plenty of opportunities to work on my dream.
But I’d let myself get hacked.
And exactly what this week’s guest is here to talk about. How we let our lives get hacked, how we pay for all the “free” things we spend our time on with our attention, and how it’s stealing our dreams from us.
Kary Oberbrunner is an author, coach, and speaker who helps individuals and organizations clarify who they are, why they're here, and where they're going so they can share their message with the world.
And he’s here today to show us how to become Unhackable so that we can succeed in business and life.
Everything Kary talks about is so impactful and powerful.
If you love this episode, which I know you will, be sure to check out Kary’s brand new book, Unhackable, coming out this Saturday, October 24th!
Kary and I talk about:
- Kary’s journey as a pastor, to side hustler, to author and publisher
- Kary’s powerful lessons on failure
- Why you should break down your projects into smaller steps
- Important questions you should start asking yourself
- The one belief Kary had to change about himself to get where he is today
My favorite quotes from Kary:
- “I believe we were all meant for a great purpose”
- “When you get hacked, that means you get distracted, you get diverted”
- “The fuel to become unhackable is enthusiasm”
Shannon Mattern: Kary. Thank you so much for being here on pep talks for side hustlers today. Can you share a little bit more with our listeners about you and what you do?
Kary Oberbrunner: Sure. So I wake up every day, truly excited. It did not used to be like that. Um, now I actually have a tough time sleeping. I am so excited and I, I mean that like today I get up at 1:30 AM because we're near a and conference and it's just, it's the best. So what do I do? Um, some people call me, um, chief igniter because our company's called igniting souls. But really what I do is I published books. I'm an author. Um, I do lead a international team of 32 people. So for years I was the guy who had a dream and had to do a side hustle. And it was, I'm talking like a lot of years, eight years of doing a side hustle before I could have the confidence and clarity to leave my day job.
Shannon Mattern: So tell me a little bit more about those side hustle days. Why did you decide to start the side hustle in the first place?
Kary Oberbrunner: Yes. Well, for me, I, it's interesting. I grew up as a pastor's kid and thought that that was like super noble to help people and, and, you know, lead them and their relationship to God. And it was, it was super noble, but I realized that there were only portions of my job that made me feel alive. And that's just what I thought. You know, people tell you that they say, Oh, every job has the part that you just can't stand. And it wasn't like it was a bad fit Shannon. But for, you know, maybe for you to even if your job is like 80%, you love what's in that extra 20%. Like that means 80% alive, but 20% dead or 20% untapped or unutilized. And so I just didn't want to be the guy who was, you know, 80 years old, some sitting on my back porch saying, well, I lived a safe life.
Kary Oberbrunner: You know, I lived a comfortable life. I wanted to say I lived every day full-out so my first exploration with my quote day job or dream job was publishing. Um, I think that that a lot of your listeners probably have this creative bent to them and they might express it in graphic design or websites or podcasting or a number of things, maybe even books. I know some of my clients, Jeff Kramer, Terry Stafford, and others are authors, you know, and they found you and said that you did great work and they're thrilled that they, uh, connected with you. So you, you had probably a similar experience where maybe some day you were sitting in your day job and you said, what would be Shannon fully unleashed to, do you ever have that experience?
Shannon Mattern: Oh, absolutely. Absolutely. It was, it was definitely, it wasn't that powerful of a question. It was definitely more of a, this, this can't be it. There's gotta be something else. I didn't have the clarity to ask big questions of myself.
Kary Oberbrunner: You just, you just looked at your life and said there has to be more. Yes. Yeah.
Shannon Mattern: And I'm not willing to settle for this anymore.
Kary Oberbrunner: Yeah. Yeah. And that's a scary thing because we are giving up, what's familiar, comfortable, safe, and predictable. And we're saying like every movie that we love, the main character has to say, there is something bigger here, and it's not that you're better than your job or you're better than the people around you, but it's that you're at least honest. That's what I find. I think most people are called to a great advance adventure. You know, I had some guy come over and do a life insurance blood test on me the other day or something like that. And I, and I said, Oh, you know how many years you've been doing it? She's like 35. And I was like, wow. You know? And I said, how did you get into this? Why don't I just started after college. I just took the first thing. And now I'm here.
Kary Oberbrunner: And I'm thinking like, wow, that's not my calling to take people's blood every day for 35 years or, or have them like, you know, forgive my language, but like pee in a cup, you know? Like, how was your day? Great. You know? And it's not that I'm judging that person, but I'm thinking like, I know there's something more in that person. Yeah. And it's cool if the person feels ultimate fulfillment, but here's something interesting. Shannon, I put out on Facebook months ago because the truth is in my book day job to dream job, it says 86% of people wish they had a different job. So you think about that for a moment, 86% of people wish they had a different job. Well, the point is like, uh, most people aren't willing to shake the rock. The boat, most people are willing to live. I use the metaphor of Shawshank, their day jobs at prison. And what happens is we become institutionalized. And when we become institutionalized, we basically say, I know where I sleep. I know where I get my food. I know my schedule, I know my routine. And then what we can do is we live life on autopilot and we don't even have to think, and we don't have to feel. And then we numb ourselves with addictions or distractions. And that's in fact what the new book's all about how we, how we willingly choose to get hacked because it's easier.
Shannon Mattern: I, uh, lived that life until I was 36 years old that you just described the safe life of autopilot, of the steady paycheck, you know, and, and that myth that, that there was security. There were, you know, and then the fear of leaving that and spending that first year on my own, just, I
Speaker 1: Don't know, trying to Recode my brain to, to realize like, no, this actually is the safer option. Yeah.
Kary Oberbrunner: Yes it is. And some of your listeners might be like, whatever, but think about it is putting all your chips on one client. I E your employer who can any day walk in and say, you're done. Yeah. And we've seen that happen. And now all of a sudden you have nothing or is it wiser to say, you know what, I'm going to diversify myself and have 10, 20, 30, whatever clients. So that if one takes a hit, I have plenty more. And I think it comes down to worth, at least it did for me. Yeah. And I think that's what we disguised it. As I know people who are the best salespeople out there, because they're selling someone else's product, but don't, you dare ask them to sell themselves. Because now all of a sudden it's like, Whoa, what if people reject me? They're rejecting me.
Kary Oberbrunner: They're not rejecting the toaster. You know? So, so I think that there's a lot of, um, a lot of self limiting self sabotage that we don't see our worth. I mean, I was, I remember telling my wife saying, Hey, Kelly, I think I'm just done. I just, I just, I cannot keep being a pastor. And it wasn't speaking part. It wasn't the people part. It was the meetings like for me, Oh my gosh, the meetings were killer and we'd sit in like six, seven hour meetings. And we would talk about the dumbest things that would never get resolved. And it was just a culture that wasn't, um, innovative, you know, think about it for a moment. Entrepreneur, the word entrepreneur Panora means bearer of risk. You see? So entrepreneur means someone who's bearing risk. And what we're told from a young age is don't take risks. You know, don't don't and don't fail and don't fall. And so you basically are grown up in a way that says, uh, do not take risks. There's this really interesting analogy where we take, we, we, what we do is we mix the word and the metaphor of falling and failing. Let me, let me give this example. When a kid who's learning to walk a little toddler
Speaker 1: Falls,
Kary Oberbrunner: They're learning to walk. We don't say, Oh, look at that kid. He's a faller. Okay. We all look at that kid, man. He's such, he's such a faller. I don't know. We say he's tried to walk and he fell. In other words, we use a temporary adjective or verb. I actually ever I'm a writer. I don't even know English. It's okay. But you say he fell. He's, it's a verb. We don't use a noun. But notice as adults, we don't say he failed. We say he's a failure. So we take the act of failing, which should only be a temporary verb. And we say, now he's a permanent, or she's a permanent noun. There are failure. And that's the difference. We don't allow ourselves the grace to take risks. So my wife surprised me at the age of 35 and with three kids under the age of six. And she said, I believe you can do it. Now. She didn't say, and whatever happens, babe is cool. No, she said, I believe you can do it. And you better bring in the income.
Kary Oberbrunner: In other words, some people have this spouse who just tells them anything or friends. Oh yeah, you can do it. You can do it. She knew I could do it. But she said like, I'm going in with you on this risk, but it's on, like, you got to do it. And I liked that pressure. I liked that. I liked the pressure of, you know, I mean, this is a little bit scary, but I like the pressure of investing 50 K in Facebook ads and then saying, Oh my gosh, are people even going to show like, that's a little, that's a little bit like poker. And uh, now I didn't start there. Right. And I don't recommend that. I think that's really bad strategy actually. But, but if, if you see something that's like, here's, here's the myth. Shannon. I don't know if you see this, but people have this myth that, Oh, I'm just going to, um, I'm just going to go and quit my day job. And then I'm going to sit on the beach and make it happen. And, and what I tell people is like, make it happen while you have the day job. It was, you agree?
Shannon Mattern: Oh, a thousand percent. Yes.
Kary Oberbrunner: Yeah. Because it's like, if you can't get up early or stay up late or in, I'm not glorifying the hustle life, but I'm, but I am saying, I wrote five books while my kids were sitting on my arm at three in the morning, feeding them a bottle. Like, you know what I'm saying? Like, and I don't say that because I'm all that. But, but I didn't go deer hunting. I didn't go biking. I didn't watch Netflix. I didn't get into video games. There's people my age that I'm not better than them, but they that's what they do. What do you do? I just play video games all the time. Fine. But don't get mad. Then when you don't have the freedom, finances and fulfillment, that's true about entrepreneurship.
Shannon Mattern: I could not agree more when I, you know, had the moment of, I have to do something different. The only thing I know how to do outside of this job is build the only skill I think that I have to offer is building for other people. I will wake up early. I will stop watching whatever garbage TV I watch while I get ready in the morning for work. And now I'm getting up and I'm working on this business for four hours before I go into the office. And then when I come home, I'm putting in more time and all weekends. And you know, I heard I did burn myself out. I'm not saying that it's not like it wasn't very healthy, but I had such a desire to change that it was worse every second of the time. And just hearing like your friends and family saying, like, you're working too hard, you're working too hard. And I'm like, I want something different for my life. This does not feel like work to me. You know, other stuff feels like work.
Kary Oberbrunner: Absolutely. Yeah. Going to the party and making small talk and not having anything significant happen and then going to the next party. Yeah, exactly. It's it doesn't fulfill. And I believe we were all meant for a great purpose. Um, I think that you're right on Shannon with exactly what you're saying. You, you wanted something else for your life and it doesn't mean that you have to, you know, burn out or this type of thing. Um, but here here's what it does mean if you can't have discipline while you have a day job, don't think that when the dream job happens, that you're suddenly going to become disciplined and you're going to be confidence. Now it, you almost need this. Um, you know, I have this card here that says jump and build your wings on the way down. And that's part of it. Like part of it is that you are holding on the one hand, your day job and crushing it in your dream job.
Kary Oberbrunner: And eventually this point comes where you're like, I could totally do this. Like I could make this happen. And what if I did, what if I did, if I'm making this result four hours a day, what if I did this 40 hours a week? And then it gets really exciting and yeah, I mean, I love my job. Um, I love my work, but, uh, you know, I love my family and you don't have to choose. So that's another thing like you, you feel like you have to choose between all these things. Um, some things you need to choose between. I still don't watch TV. I still don't play video games. I still don't do a lot of things that, you know, other people my age do, but like what I get to do and what you get to do, Shannon is like so much worth it.
Shannon Mattern: So what keeps, what's the difference between someone who is sitting at their day job, thinking that, you know, this can't be, they can't do this for their, the rest, the rest of their life, but they change nothing versus someone who thinks that and changes everything. Yeah.
Kary Oberbrunner: What's the difference. I'll tell you what, um, I think it's people who are unhackable. So I truly believe like here's, here's the quick story. Um, six years ago, I woke up on October 8th, 2014 with a dream about a future society where people's brains get hacked. And I know that sounds crazy. Um, and it was, and I even thought it was a dream, but I actually spoke into my OD into my phone, the 12 lines of text. And I woke up in the morning and it was still there. So it wasn't a dream, but, but, um, I was a nonfiction business writer and this idea for a fiction book came to me and it's right there by the way, Elixir project. And, um, it's the, you know, classic hunger games, divergent female protagonist, um, you know, doesn't know her own strength, isn't tested, orphan. Um, uncle works at a tech firm.
Kary Oberbrunner: Things start getting strange. There's a hacktivist group called swarm, which is taking over the world and start hacking people's brains, but they can't hack Sienna. And they're not sure why. And they, they find out that she and a few others are unhackable and they don't know why. And so they basically put them through a series of tests to determine what the elixir is to become unhackable. Now here's the crazy thing. This is 2014 before COVID okay. Yeah. All of a sudden in the book, they say that if you choose, because the whole point of taking these, uh, unhackable people through all these tests is to develop a vaccine. And yeah, I know this is so weird and, and they need a global vaccine to prevent swarm from hacking everyone. And so they have to go through all these tests and determine, and it's built around three things, idea, focus and flow, flawless idea, anatomy, deliberate magnetic focus, and optimal human performance.
Kary Oberbrunner: And when I wrote this thing, I'm like, this is, this is it. This is going to be my career. This is gonna be my book. And the moment it came out, people said, it's, where's the nonfiction version. And I'm like, it's not written yet. And they say, we get the, we get the part about the future society people's brains. But then in the book, I talk about how in real life, us, our dreams get hacked. Okay. So the word abracadabra, this a little bit crazy stuff here, but the word abracadabra. Did you ever say that as a kid? Oh yeah. Yeah. So I said it as a kid too. It means it came to pass as it was spoken. Or I did not know that. Yeah. I know it's crazy. Or I create as I speak. So it literally means that it's in every language and it's the single most word that is not translated.
Kary Oberbrunner: Meaning it's abracadabra in Hebrew, it's abracadabra in Greek, you know? And here's the crazy thing. If people are, have a faith that are listening to this, it's made up of three Hebrew names, father, son, spirit that's nutso. Okay. But anyway, so here we are created to be people just like you said, who create, who dream who say, that's what I want to do. Boom. And it happens. But the problem is, is that we don't have that happen. There's a big gap between ideation and implementation between dreaming and doing. And so the book unhackable starts exploring through neurobiology science, all kinds of research, military academics, athletics. I said, what is the super achiever elixir, right? What's the elixir that helps certain people, like you just said, Oh my gosh, you just asked that question. What's the difference between someone who sits there and never does anything.
Kary Oberbrunner: And the people who actually do their dream job it's that they become unhackable. So here's, what's interesting. Shannon, the word hacked means to gain unauthorized access to a system or a computer. Right? My phone got hacked. My computer got hacked. My bank account got hacked, but here's the crazy thing. Think back to biology class, do you remember that? They said our bodies were made up of systems. Remember that like circulatory, respiratory rep, you know, reproductive. So our bodies are made up of systems and our brains are like super computers. So therefore a hack when someone gains unauthorized access to our system or computer people get hacked really like this is an elixir project, dystopian fiction. This is like people today. People in 2020 absolutely got hacked. They woke up in January, thinking 2020 is going to be great. And all of a sudden COVID and racism and economy and Kobe Bryant died and boom, boom, boom, boom, boom. And when you get hacked, that means you get distracted, you get diverted. Some, someone, or something takes over you. So don't you agree that a lot of your listeners are the people who've gotten hacked, but they're the ones that are saying, how do I become unhackable? Absolutely. Absolutely.
Shannon Mattern: And I, I, I am fighting off the being hacked right now, by everything that's going on and just, you know, trying to, you know, be aware but not distracted and continue moving forward. So yeah, I mean, I think, I think what I see, what I see with my listeners and the people in my community is they're so distracted by anything and it could be before COVID, it could be, you know, work family, you know, all the, of course the Buckeyes, you know, all of these important things that, you know, feel very important, but yet they don't make time for the thing that they, the thing that they say that they want the most, the thing that will make all the rest of that so much more fulfilling.
Kary Oberbrunner: Absolutely. And that's exactly what the book is. The book is no chapters. It's broken into 30 days a day, one day, two day three. And it basically says, how are people the super achievers on planet earth? How are they, how did they become unhackable? And I literally say day one, here's what they did day two. Here's what they did. And one example is for a, for a moment, I'll just give you one example, but one of the days is urgency. Okay. So unhackable people are people that have deadlines and you might say, give me an example, okay, fine. You go back to school. And that professors all assigned some crazy stuff on day one. And then here's what we pretend. We pretend, Oh, we're not going to think about it till the day before it's due or the week before it's due. But what the studies show is that the entire time your subconscious is grinding on that project because the conscious mind only considers 120 bits of information.
Kary Oberbrunner: A second, the subconscious mind is over a hundred billion. Like you didn't have to think about breathing, blood pumping, like all this stuff's happening subconsciously. But what people don't realize is that our subconscious is grinding on all of these things. Just like Ram, you have computer Ram, you know, when your computer's going slow, because there's too many open windows, there's too many programs going on. And so we as people, this is why at the end of the day, we say, I feel tapped out. I feel burned out. I feel like I'm running on fumes. We use all these energy terms because we literally know that we have a limit to ourselves. Well, unhackable people say, you know what? I'm going to put a deadline in there now, because here's what we know. Parkinson's law says that the work always expands to the deadline, that it has meaning that difficult.
Kary Oberbrunner: If, if you have an assignment and they give you two months, you are literally going to do two months of brain power to get that thing done. Even if it's subconsciously. But if they just give you an assignment and say, it's done in 48 hours, you put that urgency. Urgency means that there's a cost. Think about that. Urgent care, urgent care is above primary care, but under emergency. So urgent means there's a cost. There's a deadline, it's urgent. But the problem is most entrepreneurs never put costs in place. They don't say what's the cost of me not achieving my dream. And then once you realize the cost of not achieving your dream, you're like, Oh, Netflix, turn it off. You see what I'm saying? That's just one little example of a 30 that, uh, if you put these 30 daily habits into your life, like you can't help but become unhackable.
Shannon Mattern: That is just fascinating to me. And it explains so much why I hear people say that this is overwhelming to me. Like when they think about, you know, where I'm at today versus this big goal that I set. And all they're thinking about is like the big goal and not all the little things that are going to, that that happened along the way. And then they're overwhelmed. It's like, of course, because you're grinding on all of that all at once. When, if you could just pick the first step and put a deadline on that first step, then now you're like really focused on, on, on that one thing. I just had this conversation yesterday with one of my students where she was like, Oh, I want to do this virtual summit. And I'm so overwhelmed by the steps. And I'm like, your first step is to just do this one, this one thing. So that makes, that makes so much sense. And I do it to myself all the time where I am like, Oh, I have to get this big project out. And I'm just thinking about the size of the project rather than the little pieces and parts of the project that just have to open my computer and sit down and step. Yeah.
Kary Oberbrunner: Oh yeah. And here's the other thing with your student because we don't break it down into the smaller step with a smaller deadline here, check this out. We don't celebrate the small win. In other words, it's people say, like, I got a picture of me and the villain from Shawshank redemption, the warden. Cause he launched my book with me and I didn't know a celebrity. And I didn't, you know, we did this at Shawshank prison, but I celebrated the smallest step along the way. Most people get discouraged. They're like, Oh, how do I meet that big person? How do I get that big summit? Just like you said, the big summit is choose a date. You know? Uh, maybe that's the first step. In fact, I have a tee shirt that says your next best step. Like, that's all you need to do. But when you get your date, then you have a party. And when you get your first speaker, you have a party like this is the exciting thing about being an entrepreneur. Yes. It's made up of a thousand mini steps, but each mini step celebrate it for the wind that it is.
Shannon Mattern: That is, that's interesting that you say that too, because I think when we're coming out of this conditioning of being an employee, right, and then we are a entrepreneur or a solo entrepreneur, there's nobody sitting over here to congratulate me on a job. Well done. Or I could tell my husband like, Oh, this really exciting thing happened today. And of course he's happy for me, but like, he doesn't understand like the, you know, Oh, I set a date for this thing. And it's like, okay, like how, why is that? So, so I think we do have to be our own cheerleader all day, every day. Like it's only our responsibility.
Kary Oberbrunner: Absolutely. I tell people that, um, . And I I'm really into words. I, I can't do numbers and all, but, but, um, words are seeing there's hope for all of you out there who can do numbers as an entrepreneur, just get somebody smart around you. But the word enthusiasm is en theos. And it means theos is where we get God. So theology, you know, theophany so God, within infused by God. In other words, when you have enthusiasm, you're literally in infused by, by God. Like, and I don't know if your people have faith and that's fine if they don't, but for me, like, that's it, like, it's not me against the world. It's like, Hey, it's God in me against the world. And you know, and, and I get a lot of my strength from that. And therefore then when someone is like, no, we can't accept your book.
Kary Oberbrunner: No, we reject it. No, I don't want to endorse it. I honestly am not. I mean, I'm, I'm sad for like 30 seconds or a minute. And then this is such a important part of being an entrepreneur. You have to be resilient. You just bounce back and say, you know what, no problem. And then you go bigger. Like, I think there's something about that, that you have it. I S I see that you have it, but it's this, um, like never say die, never quit. I mean, I grew up as a pessimist. I always thought what's the worst. Why? Cause I was, I wanted to control the outcome. Like, okay, if this really bad situation happens, then here's what I would do. And I would feel in control now. I'm like, I don't even have time for pessimism. What do you think?
Shannon Mattern: I, um, yeah, I used to always be managing risk. Right? Know if I'm always thinking five steps ahead of, if I make this decision, then these three things could happen and then choosing, you know, and then it just becomes this big, big thing. And you know, at some point I'm like, what's, I'm not asking myself the right question. Right. You know? And that, that was really, it's not like, what if this doesn't work out? It's like, what if it does?
Kary Oberbrunner: Oh, that's good. See, that's such a different way to live. I agree. I absolutely agree. And that's a great sales technique by the way, folks that Shannon, Shannon, no Shannon is to gave you some gold. Like oftentimes when I'm on a webinar and stuff, I tell people that I say a lot of you are sitting here right now. You've heard this whole webinar, you know, the product's going to help you. I just put a 30 day money back guarantee. And you're saying, well, what, what if it doesn't work? And I say, you know, well, what if it does work? And you don't join now, you know, like you flip the equation and all of a sudden it takes the person as their default being sitting on the couch inaction. And one thing I've learned about successful people is their default is action. Yeah. You know, they don't have, you don't have to get up and motivate them and say, come on, man, you can do it today.
Kary Oberbrunner: You know? I I'll tell you what, for me, I think it's holistic. I exercise a ton and it's not like, Oh, I'll tell you, it's doing hard things. You know, if I can go do this really tough workout, early tough bike ride, then it's like calling a client. It's easy. You know? So that's what I think people need. We need to be people that surround ourselves with excellence. And that's huge, by the way. That's why, if Shannon's got masterminds or programs, you need to surround yourself with her because there's a certain quality about theirs. There's a certain acceptance level. Like, I'm sorry, but you don't hang out with people. If you want to be wealthy, you don't just say all my four closest people are going to be absolutely poor. And they're going to shame everything that I decide, and they're going to not invest in themselves.
Kary Oberbrunner: Like some people need to stop hanging with some people and I've heard people say, well, what's my spouse or it's my kid. Well, you know what, that's fine. They're your family member love them anyways. But here's what you do. You stop letting them influence you. Meaning like you can't go and say, you know, honey, should I go, should I go make these calls now? Like you got to have that internally. And in fact, your spouse might say, why don't you just come sit here and watch this stupid show where, you know, everyone's a, whatever, I'm not gonna name shows, but, but you know what I'm saying? You get it.
Shannon Mattern: Oh yeah. And I slowed myself down by trying to go it alone. You know, in the beginning, when I was side hustling, I did not realize that there was a whole world out there of communities of entrepreneurs who were, you know, willing to coach me and even, and even throughout the side hustle days, um, you know, I was scared to invest in and in that, you know, and I was just that's, that's why I hustled so hard. Cause I made it challenging on myself because I was still not like fear based mindset. And, and you know, I was like thinking, looking back, you know, I'm three years out from leaving my day job. The first year was like deconditioning myself from employee to entrepreneur. So there was still a lot of fear there. And then I got to the point in the entrepreneurial journey where I was like, I need more help. I can't keep going like this alone. And that's when I decided like, Oh, I'm going to take a risk and invest more than I ever felt comfortable investing. Like if you know, my husband was like, that's so much money. And I'm like, this is, you know, this has got to happen. This is the next level. And I can't believe I waited that long. You know,
Kary Oberbrunner: When you did immediately, you opened up an entire new level of success and people need to, people need to realize this because a lot of times people say why, you know, I'm going to charge 10 K for my mastermind. And you're like, well, how much did you invest in yourself? Nothing not. You know? So we're basically saying that we don't believe in ourselves, but we want other people to believe in us. Once you said I'm going to invest more in myself immediately, it made the number you're asking other people to invest in use small. Yes. Right? Yes. So it's called a shot of confidence and you can't just buy it. You actually worked it. See, that's the other problem. I know people are like, Oh, drop 50 candidates. And then they don't do anything. It's both. You have to drop the 500 or 5,000 or 50 K or whatever it is and do the work. And suddenly, you know, it's like the exercise machine where the exercise machine actually works and you do get abs and you do get healthy, but just the equipment alone doesn't make you healthy. You need both.
Shannon Mattern: So thinking about, you know, how we get hacked and how we get hacked for our attention. And it's being, you know, I was reading the first chapter of the book and how, you know, we pay with our attention and the cost is all of our dreams and goals. You know, thinking about that in terms of like the person who's not chasing their entrepreneurial dreams at all for Facebook, Netflix, video games, whatever. But then there's like this person that I feel like I was just a few years ago, who is also kind of being hacked by shiny objects in business and, you know, being pulled in a million different directions and chasing this and chasing that and having, yeah. So I want to hear your opinion on that. You know, as like the early entrepreneur, who's like really scared to go all in and it's just like prime for hacking. It's like I put all my passwords out there on the internet
Kary Oberbrunner: Outside of you. What? My friend, I got to get the book here. There's I think it's day 17 day 17 is all about the diet. Oh no day, 19 day 19. Activate your diets. Okay. Now people don't want to hear about this, but I don't know if you can see this here. Um, Shannon, but do you see that focus, focus framework? So the focus framework, everybody listening right now is either one of these three people. They're either a consumer, a critic or a creator. So a consumer has no filter. Everything goes kind of like you're saying, Oh, listen to this podcast, reading this book, doing this thing, going to that summit, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And the output is nothing. Okay. Now you have the other person's who is the critic? Well, I'm not going to read that. I'm not going to watch that.
Kary Oberbrunner: I don't care what that person says, no filter, but nothing goes. So that output is nothing as well. But the creator says I have a filter and some things go and therefore their output is one thing. But let me tell you what diet means. Okay? Diet. This is what I use. Okay. D stands for determine where you want to go. That's what most people's problem is right there. They don't know I'm not going to drop names, but they don't know if they want to be like X person, Y person, Z person. And therefore what they're doing is like, it's like a blender. They literally go to the refrigerator, put in some eggs, some avocado, some lettuce, they put in some peanut butter, some raspberries, some corn it's like nasty. And then they hit blend and then they put it out and says, why doesn't it work?
Kary Oberbrunner: Why doesn't it taste good? And the reason why is because they blended 12 different success models that are actually all competing against one another. And now they're saying, well, why didn't it work? So the first thing you do is you determine where you want to go. D the letter I is identify, who's getting the results you want. There's a lot of people out there who are wantrepreneurs who say, Oh, look at this, look at that, look at that. And then you say, well, where are your results? Well, I don't have any, you know, no identify, who's getting the results. Then he is a eliminate, all the empty calories, literally unsubscribe, literally block, literally unlike. And I'll tell you what I got caught in that years ago, where it's like, I'm going to follow this person, this person, this person, this for an ed. Oh, look at their life.
Kary Oberbrunner: Look at their life. Look at that. Oh, look at that. And here's what that is. That's a counseling term called disassociation. And what it means is that when you are a victim, you disassociate, you go another place. Mentally. We say daydreaming, but it's actually much worse than that. It's a survival technique. If you're in an abusive situation, you literally disassociate where you leave your body and that's what people do. They leave their body to go pretend. What would it be like to be like Brad Pitt or this person or Angelina Jolie or this or this, whoever you got in your mind that you think is all that in there in the entrepreneur space, you start saying, I wonder what it would be like to be them. And now you've lost all your power because you're no longer in your present situation. So you eliminate all the empty calories and then T stands for turn your focus only after squeezing and applying every last drop of value.
Kary Oberbrunner: So I don't turn to the next guru, the next person, the next mentor, until I say, you know what? I've mined everything. So right now it's Dan Sullivan for me. And he's 76 years old. And he works with the top entrepreneurs in the world. And I haven't gotten my fill yet. So when people are like, Oh, you gotta go to this, you gotta do that. You gotta do that. I'm like, you know what? No, I don't because it's going to make me lose my momentum and get me hacked. So if you're listening to Shannon and she is your, your voice right now, you mind her M I N E mind her until every last thing you can get. And then, and only then you say, Oh, I'll go listen to that other person. And I see this, I see people jumping from quote guru to guru thought leader, the thought leader, and they're getting nothing done. And that's a big hack. Thanks for bringing that up.
Shannon Mattern: Oh, that's so good. I hear, you know, I was very guilty of that in my early, early years too, because you're just searching for the answers, searching for the answers. And, and I see this with my students too, where they're like, but this tactic, this tactic, and I'm like, any of these tactics would work. If you stick stuck with one of them and saw it all the way through to end. So, whereas I might teach something a very specific way. That doesn't mean that my way is right. And everyone else's way is wrong. My way works. If you go all the way through and you know, stay the course.
Kary Oberbrunner: I totally, I totally agree.
Shannon Mattern: Oh, this has been so good. I cannot wait to get my hands on the book. I have one question for you that I ask everyone that comes on the show. And then I want to know all the places that we can get in touch with you, where we can get the book and all the things. So I ask everyone this question that comes on the show, and that is what one belief did. You have to change about yourself to get where you are today.
Kary Oberbrunner: Wow, that's so deep one that I think everyone needs to deal with, that they have value because it's very tough to get other people to buy your product service or even your attention. If you don't think you're worth it, and you don't think you have value and I'll be, I'll be honest, Shannon, you know, my story of people Google it. Like I used to be a Cotter. I used to have a struggle with self-injury as an addiction. Of course, I didn't see my own value, you know? And so I had to work through a lot of issues just to even get me back up to even, uh, before I then could sell a product and service. But, but it even changes because after I overcame self-injury and was a pastor and felt that I was supposed to go into my dream job, I had someone I respect to say, well, what are you going to do?
Kary Oberbrunner: What are you going to, what do you, why would people pay you? And I start, I, and this was like a very influential personality. I started crying because like, I'm like, I don't know, like why would anyone pay me for anything? And that's okay if you're saying that today, because all that means is that you're self aware and now you can build up. It's worse to be ignorant and be like, Oh, I can make a snowflakes out of potatoes, you know, and everyone's going to buy it. Like, that's not a good place to be. Um, but, but if you say I have enough, I don't even know what people would buy it. Great. Now you can work with Shannon and get built up and understand your messaging.
Shannon Mattern: Ah, so, so powerful. So powerful. Thank you for coming on the show and sharing all of this with everyone. I can't wait to get my hands on the full book and go through all 30 days. So can you share with us, you know, where we can get our hands on the book, connect with you? Um, the conference, everything. Yeah.
Kary Oberbrunner: Yeah. So when people are listening to this, um, my thought is we're going to be like right around launch, which is exciting. So unhackable book.com is the website, unhackable book.com, tons of stuff there. We're doing a crazy called a million dollar launch where we change a million lives. And every book that's purchased goes to help, uh, people around the world, families, clothes, clean water, um, sex trafficking, freedom planning, trees. So we partnered with [inaudible] dot com. So every purchase does that, but, uh, the conference always igniting souls, conference.com. It's the best speakers. It's fantastic. And, uh, it's entrepreneurs, authors, coaches, and speakers. So yeah, if people want to spend three days of amazing connection, it'd be great to have them come.
Shannon Mattern: Great. Well, thank you so much. I'm going to link up all of this stuff in the show notes, all the books. I really appreciate you being here. I can't thank you enough for everything that you do.
Kary Oberbrunner: Thanks for having me. Alright. That's awesome.
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Kary Oberbrunner is an author, coach, and speaker who helps individuals and organizations clarify who they are, why they're here, and where they're going so they can become souls on fire, experience unhackability, and share their message with the world. As a child and young adult, Kary overcame a paralyzing speech disorder and an addiction to self-injury. In the past twenty years, he’s ignited over one million people with his content. He lives in Ohio with his wife, Kelly, and three children.
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