I'm so excited to introduce you to this week's guest on Pep Talks for Side Hustlers, Alecia St. Germain of The Conscious Edge!
Alecia St. Germain is the founder and Ace of Transformation behind The Conscious Edge. After more than 15 years of training entrepreneurs, she knows most people focus on “how to do it,” but miss the crucial “who to become” to get your next-level results. Nothing gets Alecia more fired up than seeing you reach goals faster and achieve unlimited wealth and happiness. Alecia is a master at uncovering and maximizing her clients’ natural gifts, identifying areas of improvement, and creating a strategic plan to overcome unconscious blocks to success, happiness, and the flow of money.
Push play to listen to this week's episode, or read the full transcript below!
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Shannon Mattern: Welcome to episode 328 of Pep Talks for Side Hustlers. And I am so excited to introduce you to today's guest Alicia St. Germain of the Conscious Edge, where she helps people become who they need to become to reach their next level. Alicia, thank you so much for being here. Can you share a little bit more with our listeners about you and what you do?
Alecia St. Germain: I would love to Shannon. First of all, let me say thank you so much for having me. I'm so excited to be here and to share with your audience. Um, so I am the founder of the Conscious Edge and it really comes out of a lot of years of working with entrepreneurs and realizing that the number one thing that keeps people from reaching their full potential is that, um, they have these unconscious blocks that are really meant to keep you safe and they get in the way. And so a lot of times it looks like you thought you'd be further along by now or that, uh, the money isn't consistent, you get into like a stop and start. And even though you're having success, it's like, you know there's more and you just keep plateauing at the same level. And so, uh, I really, really work with people in those unconscious blocks to tear apart those old belief systems that no longer serve you and really are having you leave a lot of money on the table.
Shannon Mattern: So we'll talk a little bit later about my experience working with you and what some of my unconscious beliefs were that I did not know were even operating back there in my brain. And just that, just that experience of what my results were after working with you. So we'll talk about that later. We'll talk about me later, but first I, um, how we met was so interesting and it's one of those things that was like, it must have supposed to have happened, somebody is orchestrating this, you know, I don't, whatever you believe, somebody is orchestrating this behind the scenes. Can you tell your version of how we crossed paths?
Alecia St. Germain: Absolutely. So it's interesting because number one, um, I believe there are just things in this world, whatever your belief system is, you can't explain them. And when it happens, it's like magic or it's a God moment or whatever you want to call it. And so I was actually planning a summit to help, uh, entrepreneurs make the mindset shift and the, the freedom shift really in their mind to be able to access, uh, more freedom, more clients, more, uh, money and, and really build a life that you love and be able to have the income that, that supports that without being like so many times when you're working a nine to five, you're taught that a, a job. Um, you're supposed to fit your life in around a job, right. And I just don't believe that's true. I believe what you do for money. Number one, you should love it.
Alecia St. Germain: And number two, uh, it should work on your terms and I'm sure we'll end up getting into why that happened. But, um, I reached out to you and, you know, just, I mean, I loved what you did. I thought it was awesome that you figured out such a cool way to give something away for free that would literally help anybody get their business launched and still make money. And it was so generous of you. So I was so excited to talk to you. And then when your number came across, I was like, Oh my gosh, we're in the same town. And then we talked and like, we went to the same college and we literally are the same age. And then we are like finding out that we go camping one campground away from each other and probably played in the same river. So, you know, at the same time and we never knew each other. Shannon is to me like kind of my soul sister, like who I just never knew existed out there.
Shannon Mattern: I agree. I remember when we had our call scheduled, I think it was like a pre-interview to decide like, was I a good fit for the summit? And like, just get my questions answered. And I see a 614 area code, cause we're in, we're in Columbus, Ohio, a 614 area code. And I was just like, I can't take this call because I'm expecting a, I am expecting a call for this interview, but I picked it up and I was just like, wait a minute. Like, how are we in the same town? And we don't know each other, you know? And, and it just, we just instantly connected. And then you invited me to join this, uh, Columbus change agents mastermind, which has also been life-changing. I attended a workshop of yours, which has been just transformational for me and my business.
Shannon Mattern: And we'll get to like, I, I just, I don't want to make this all about my transformations. You guys have heard them on my income reports and all of that. I talk about Alecia. You've heard her name 17 times before now. So I want to talk about you we'll get to that stuff later. Um, but I do want to know more about like, what, what about your journey led you to the point where you're like, Oh, I shouldn't have to work my life around my job. Like my job should, I should be able to make money around my life.
Alecia St. Germain: I have to say I'm very blessed in that I grew up in a family of entrepreneurs. My father was self-employed. My stepdad was self-employed. My mom was self-employed. All in really a lot of things surrounding real estate, being contractors or, um, having my, my, um, my mom was a residential real estate appraiser. So it was kind of always in my blood and I didn't want to do what my mom, what my mom did. So I brilliantly went, like, I'm going to go to school, get a job and work for a living and what I, I went to Ohio state and I'm very grateful for the experience. Cause I, I think it really gives you time to, to grow up a little bit and in a container that's that teaches you responsibility. And I was able to come out of college and get a really good paying job right away. Um, which was awesome.
Alecia St. Germain: When I watched my other friends who didn't have really specific degrees. I was a respiratory therapist and they didn't have really specific degrees. And so they kind of floated not knowing like where to land. So I was really grateful that I was making pretty good money so early. However, I did not like to show up when they told me to show up. And I did not like to be there when they told me I, you know, could leave. And, uh, I didn't like the long hours. That's not what I witnessed in my family. What I witnessed was like, we want to go on a weekend getaway. We do it. So it only took me about two years to call my mom and say, mom, I think you're right. Which, um, we laugh about, but I'm, I'm grateful that she always kept inviting me. And I would say to anybody out there listening who might be a parent and like, you would love to see your kids follow in your footsteps, just keep inviting.
Alecia St. Germain: She never forced me. Um, but she kept inviting me. And, and so I saw how they lived their life and I wanted that too. So I ended up in real estate. But as I said, most people, I realized, were not implementing the strategies that we were teaching as real estate investors. My mom and I both traveled together and taught people how to invest in real estate. But people weren't doing it. And I'm always of the mindset you leave people better than you found them. So it didn't feel good. We were working for a company and it didn't feel good that people were spending tens of thousand dollars on their credit cards and not getting the results. And then going back to their jobs, nine to five, and paying off debt. And it wasn't that they didn't have the keys to the kingdom, that the strategy wasn't good it's that they couldn't get over themselves to get in action.
Alecia St. Germain: And I happened to come across this tiny little article in a gym magazine, of all things. And it talked about why people have such a hard time changing our behaviors. And I was like, Oh my gosh, this is it. And it was, again, one of those God moments where it was, it was like this is it. This is my calling. This is what I'm supposed to do because in my life in respiratory therapy and real estate, and whatever I did, it was always about upleveling people. It was always about taking people to the next level and teaching them to be something more than they were. Not even more than they were. It's to be, to really access the parts of themselves that they never let shine. That's really what it is. And, um, and so when I had my daughter, I didn't like the grind of real estate. And it, it was hard because what looks good on paper, like I had a successful business teaching people and what looks good on paper was not filling my heart. And my life was a bit of a grind. And I was like, this is not acceptable. And when I started seeing my child, um, reflecting back to me, my perfectionism, my way of being, my intensity, I was like, this isn't happening. And so I totally shifted careers into this coaching that I knew was going to change many more entrepreneurs' lives. And, um, and then that's where that journey began.
Shannon Mattern: I want to touch back on something, something that you said where, you know, you were in real estate, teaching people, these strategies for investing, and you would see them spend all of this money to then go back to what they were doing and have to pay off that and not ever see a return on the investment. And I would notice, you know, I'm teaching people how to build a website, how to do all the marketing strategies, they're paying money to invest with me, to do this thing that they really, really, really want to do. And then they would just slide back into their nine to five and never, never do anything with it. And for me, I did not understand that the problem wasn't me. That I wasn't good enough. That my, my training wasn't good. Like I would constantly see this happen. I'd see some people like just take off and have massive success and go on to build million dollar businesses.
Shannon Mattern: I'm not even kidding. Like from taking my five day website Free 5 Day Website Challenge. I'd see that. I wouldn't take credit for that, but I'd take credit for, you know, the people who didn't have success. And I would, I would think that it was my fault and I'd need needed to be better or do better. And once I understood from, you know, I think I was kind of clued in before we met, but then once I understood, like once I went through your workshop and saw exactly how our thinking works against us, I personally felt so much relief because I was like, Oh, I am not responsible for this. But now that I know, I feel like a, not a responsibility, but just like, almost like evangelistically, like, I need people to know why they're not doing what they say they want to do.
Shannon Mattern: And that's why I'm just like so glad that we met. Cause I'm like, this is the person that can tell you why you are not doing what you like. You know, all the things it's, it's like anything interesting that you read it in a gym magazine. It's like, Oh, I know all the things to like lose weight and get healthy, but I'm not doing it. I know all the things to market my business and make money and grow, but I'm not doing it. Um, and so that's really where you come in and I want to like shout it from the rooftops because you're the missing piece. You're the missing piece to anybody who is just like, I know what to do, but I'm just not doing it.
Alecia St. Germain: Exactly. Exactly. And what's really cool. Here's the thing. Shannon, when I first left, when I was really first in teaching real estate, I actually knew that the mindset wasn't being supported, I knew that piece. I just didn't know how to express it because there's things in your life as you're listening. And you're thinking about your own business, there are things, you know, but you don't know, it's not common knowledge. It's just like, it's part of your calling. It's who you are. I call it your super power. Cause it's like, um, so people always ask me like, what's my superpower. I go, it's oftentimes the thing that you think everybody does and you get annoyed when they don't like one of mine is forgiveness. I just have always been a forgiving person. And when I would apologize, I'd have somebody who would stay mad and I'd be like, wait a minute.
Alecia St. Germain: No, I apologize. You're supposed to forgive. Cause it's easy for me, but it's not easy for most people. And it really comes down to like who you are at your core and what, what your core values are. So, so I would say to you, like, first of all, there's things you know in your business. Lean into those. Lean into those. You don't have to know why you know them. Just lean into those. Cause that was, that was clues of my calling. That was clues for me through my journey of what I was supposed to be doing. It just took like really a magazine beating me over the head to recognize it. Um, but during that time I also felt like it was the person giving the trainings responsibility. And I remember being so frustrated with that company because they're like, no, we're not in personal development.
Alecia St. Germain: That's not what we do. We do real estate. I was like, yeah, but you need it. Like these people need it. That's not fair. You're taking their money and you're not, you're not doing it. Um, but ultimately what I learned is it's really the individual's responsibility. It's really your responsibility. I do believe, Shannon, you're doing your people a service because you're saying, look, I'm not the expert, but you need this. Like, if you're taking my course and you're not doing it, like there's a difference between knowing something, a mentor of mine said this, you can know something or, um, you can have knowledge of something. And knowing something means like, it's in you. It's like ingrained in you. You know what to do, you're doing it. It's an action. And having knowledge of something is like, okay, yeah, I know how to do it, but I'm not getting up to the plate.
Alecia St. Germain: And so it's really interesting because it can be very humbling for someone who gets annoyed with a program and they go, well, I already know that, like, this is the same thing I've heard before. Well, because you're searching for something that's outside of you. And it's not actually outside of you. It's inside of you that it has to be unlocked. So I totally get the frustration, but it's like, you're hoping there's some magical key somewhere that you're going to go find in a strategy. And it's really just a piece that's already in you. It just needs released.
Shannon Mattern: Oh, that is so good. So if you're listening to this and you go from course to course to course, and you're like, they all teach the same thing. It's because the strategy is not that different. You know? And, and then the other piece of that is if you are doing that and you aren't getting anywhere, there's nothing wrong with you. You just don't know that there's things that you think or that you believe, or that are just, I would say, ingrained in you or imprinted or programmed into you that you don't even know are operating, that are causing you to just continue to not get results.
Alecia St. Germain: I call it your cave person. Like if you think of us as human beings, like we're super vulnerable. Like if you take us out of our houses, took away our clothes, like threw us out like naked and afraid, we are vulnerable. And we don't have like armor or horns on our heads or, or spit toxic chemicals or whatever to protect ourselves. So what has helped the human race survive is our brain. And it's our ability to figure out ways to keep us safe. And it's instinctive that babies cry out in the middle of the night because the night is very vulnerable for humans. And so babies cry out in the middle of the night or get scared of the dark or even I still get the heebie-jeebies in the dark because like that is a primal instinct. So there's a caveman in your head that has some ideas about the way the world works. And it's just trying to get you safe. Like there's nothing wrong with you. It's, it's really like a place of gratitude. Like, Hey, thanks for keeping me safe. However, you're a little out of control and you need to take a chill pill. And, um, and you can either be controlled by your mind, which is what's happening when you make a choice to avoid something you fear, or you can control your mind, which is when you make a choice, even when you're afraid, but you know, it's moving you towards your vision.
Shannon Mattern: And that is, it can feel very scary. It can feel very scary. I recently, we recently worked with me on this where I ugly cried in our coaching, in our coaching session, but the fear was real. It was as if, uh, I had left the cave without clothes on. That's how it felt. So,
Alecia St. Germain: And I think it makes sense if you're cool with it to actually talk about that
Alecia St. Germain: For you. Why did you think you didn't want to go to the next level in your business
Shannon Mattern: Specifically?
Alecia St. Germain: Like, like before we, we did the work, you thought you knew why you didn't want to do it, and if you don't remember, I do.
Shannon Mattern: I'll say what I'm thinking now. It might be different than what I was thinking then, but I was just thinking like, I, what I have is good enough or, you know, I, I don't know what I would do with more. I have what I need. Getting any more as greedy.
Alecia St. Germain: Yes. And you also were like, it also manifested for you as, I don't know if I really want the responsibility of other people's income. And so it can be really practical. Like, it sounds really practical. Like, you know what? This is enough. I don't know if I want to be responsible for someone else's income and that's what this stuff looks like. That's how good your unconscious mind is, like, okay, let's, let's make this so realistic and reasonable that we, she doesn't even know we're here.
Shannon Mattern: Yeah. It sounds good on paper. Oh, you're so humble. You don't even want any more.
Alecia St. Germain: But what did you discover?
Shannon Mattern: I discovered that it was the fear of what people would think of me if I went for more, if I strayed from the pack, so to speak. That was the real thing holding me back and causing me to think this is good enough. I'll just stay right here.
Alecia St. Germain: Yeah. And it was like that, that thing of, of not wanting to appear being greedy, like you said, and nobody likes to admit, you know, anybody who finds that on their map, in our workshop, nobody wants to admit that they care what other people think, but it's, it's just human psychology. We're communal. We don't want to do things that are going to oust us from our community because that's a survival mechanism. Being in a community is, is part of survival. Strength in numbers. And so nobody wants to be ousted, but, um, but nobody likes to admit that, right? As adults that's like, Oh man, I feel like a teenager. I feel like a kid. But it, but it oftentimes is part of it. Um, so, so the other piece for you, um, was we talked about how you not playing a bigger game. It really didn't have anything to do with you because you did have what you need, but you also could make a bigger impact and help a lot more people.
Alecia St. Germain: And, um, I think a majority of coaches, trainers, anybody teaching strategy, I really do believe they're in it for the right reasons. I think they don't always know what those reasons are. It's kind of a calling it's, that piece. Um, but, but Shannon, you're like, you're such, I said to you, you're such a generous person. There is no possible way you could take advantage of someone because that's not who you are. Even if someone perceives that, even if you perceive that like somebody is too expensive or somebody is like price gouging or whatever it is, understand that trigger is in you, not in the person that's presenting an offer to you. It's really the trigger in you that says maybe something like I'm I'm I don't think I could actually do it. And I, I'm not, I'm not confident enough to invest that much money in myself because I'm afraid I'd be wasting my money.
Alecia St. Germain: But it manifests or, it comes into real life as, you know, Shannon's a price gouger, or something like that, or whoever the person might be. Um, but that can keep us playing small because when you think like that you actually price yourself like that too. So entrepreneurs oftentimes will undercharge, which was one of your pieces, is you were undercharging. And so part of the reason some people won't get results is because they don't have enough skin in the game to really make it. Like I've got to do this because if I don't, I don't know what else I'm going to do. Sometimes having your back against the wall like that is a gift because it makes you perform.
Shannon Mattern: I would totally agree with that. And I was absolutely undercharging and that hurt my clients. Not only because they didn't have enough skin in the game, but also because my mindset not being where it needed to be was not pulling their mindset up to be there too. So they were undercharging because they were modeling what I was doing. I would believe in them more than they would believe in them. But they were also like modeling my energy and modeling what they had seen me doing. So they were undercharging and they weren't believing that they were worthy of charging more. And so after doing this work with you, and you know, just really going all in, like my clients are making more money. Which is the biggest gift of doing the work on myself is watching them, like rise up. Because I'm charging more. I'm not undercharging myself anymore for my program. I can still raise the price. I still see where this price is going to go. So I am less than what it's worth right now, but there's a path to go there. And I don't feel bad about it at all. Like, there's a plan in place. Two months ago, I would have felt horrible about that.
Alecia St. Germain: And you know what, it's not always about, like, I have to charge what I'm worth. You can be that for people. It's really about you're taking baby steps into charging prices that you feel comfortable with, and yet are still generous. And that was one of the things... Right before Shannon was about to make an offer, you were like, Oh my gosh, like, I don't want to mess this up because I don't actually believe I can do it. And so we went back to okay, make this so good that you actually feel like you're undercharging. Like you're almost tricking the system that you know is already in place. And so you're like, Oh, well, I looked at it. I'm like giving over $10,000 of value for half the price. And so then it became easier to make that offer. And other people could see that as well.
Alecia St. Germain: So, you know, it's okay to be generous. I think it's beautiful to be generous. I think it's amazing when you make it easy for people to step into and pay you for what you do. And this is to everybody out there listening, obviously. It's beautiful to be generous and make it easy on people to step in. And also you can support them better when you have more money coming in. Like, even if you want to go to that place where you have a hot, you're like, I don't want to charge people a lot of money. I just, I have a clientele that cannot afford a lot. I I'm serving that population. That's totally cool. I get it. But you have to do volume because the reason you have to do the volume is that you need the support team in order to support yourself.
Alecia St. Germain: You know, it might take you 5,000 clients for a really low price point, which means to manage 5,000 clients and really serve them well, you need a team and a system to do that. So it still takes money, even though, and you've gotta be able to take care of your basic needs. If your basic needs are not met, you can't actually reach those higher levels. And that's just on like, Maslow's hierarchy of needs. Like gotta fill the basic needs first. You know, I can understand. I always say, like, I'm not excusing the behavior and saying it's okay, but I do understand why some people make bad choices and do criminal things. Because if you look behind at that person, they probably have a child they're trying to feed or a need that they're trying to get met that they cannot figure out and don't have the capacity to know any better, because they've never been exposed. I can understand, and I can have empathy for that person because basic needs have to be met. They're required for our human survival.
Shannon Mattern: Yeah. And I realized, you know, I was overworking to the point of burnout to sustain the business, which is unsustainable. So even if I am bringing in, you know, $10, $15, $20,000 a month, if I'm working 24/7 to make that happen, I'm still under charging. It's still unsustainable. So the transformation that has happened just in the past few months is just, this'll be our next level of work that we have to do together, is not working all the time. So we'll put a pin in that and we'll, we'll coach on that for our next next thing. But I want to talk to you about, you know, your methodology, and how you coach people. So we did this mapping workshop where it seems very simple on the surface where you walked us through this process to find, you call it the big assumption. So can you talk a little bit about that process and then how that big assumption really operates in us?
Alecia St. Germain: So the, the common way to reach a goal is you set a goal, you get an accountability partner, you have the motivation, you have your plan, and then you're just supposed to overcome your natural way of being to achieve this thing. And it gets really frustrating. And that's why it's like this new year's resolution approach where, okay, we're in January, we're going to do this. We're so excited. And by week three, we have completely fallen off. And that's why it's so funny to me, like the gym gets super busy and I'm like, it's cool because by March, we're going to be okay. But most methodologies really focus on skills that you need to develop to reach your goal. And what this process does, which this is not my process. This is immunity to change, which is Robert Kegan and Lisa Lahey.
Alecia St. Germain: Their life's work at Harvard researching how the mind works based in psychology. it's really backed by science. And, and so what we look at is not the goal you wanna achieve, but the part of you that's getting in the way of that goal. And we look to transform that piece because the goal actually happens naturally when we do that. And I'll talk a little bit more in a minute, but it's a good place to point out, one of the aha moments you and I had over the holidays is I was happened to come across your 90 day goal. And I texted it to you and I said, Hey, how interesting. You actually hit your goal and you didn't even know you were working on it. And so it was really cool to see that.
Alecia St. Germain: So we actually work on that mindset in the background that's going on, that's actually making it hard for you to hit your goal. And really, you know that you have a thought and a feeling and a behavior. And it's like, okay, what came first? The chicken or the egg, or what? And it's really that our feelings, like our gut, it's only designed to stay in your body for like 90 seconds. And then in order for that feeling to stay in there, it has to be reinforced by you thinking about it. So that's like, when you tell a story, you get like upset where you start to feel all the emotions again. It's because you're reinforcing the feeling with a thought. Well, there's unconscious thoughts going on. So that feeling you got that was because there was something in the unconscious that was triggered. So there's these unconscious thoughts going on. And so it's like, how do I get into my unconscious mind, find that little cave man and call him out? Well, we actually look at your behavior. What are you doing first? What are you saying to yourself? What are you saying to others? And then what are you physically doing when you should be working on your goal? You know, some people do the laundry. Some people scroll social media. What was one of the things you did, Shannon?
Alecia St. Germain: A behavior would be like, you told yourself you had enough. That you didn't need more. And you also told yourself you weren't really sure you wanted to be responsible for other people. Right? . So those are some of those pieces. I think there was some other things around delegating and things like that.
Shannon Mattern: Oh yeah. I'd keep doing all of the work instead of building a team. So I would overwork and keep all of the things, because that is a sure-fire way to prevent you from growing when you have no time and no help,
Alecia St. Germain: But it's logical. Right. Cause you were saving money.
Shannon Mattern: I was saving money and I wasn't going to grow any more. So I could just stay right there and manage that level.
Alecia St. Germain: Okay. So, um, so after we look at your, your behaviors, your counterproductive behaviors that get in the way, we actually, um, imagine the feelings that go along with you doing the opposite. So for you, um, I would say to like imagine that you have to hire someone and you have to depend on them and we talked about what's the feeling that comes up for you. I can't remember what it was exactly, but it was like, there was a fear there.
Shannon Mattern: Oh yeah. Yeah.
Alecia St. Germain: Like our feelings though are very, they kind of float around in the ether and they're really kind of hard to put action to. So we actually really look at it as a counter commitment. So for you, like, I may also be committed to not being held responsible for somebody else's, wellbeing. That would make it hard to grow your business the way you want it to. So you start to see, as we look at it on paper, you got one foot on the accelerator saying, I want that goal. It's amazing. But then your unconscious mind is like, yeah, but let's put our foot on the brake because I really don't want the responsibility of this. Or I don't want to look bad or I'm afraid. I think one of yours was like, I'm committed to having people like me at all costs.
Alecia St. Germain: So if you had to manage people, they might not like you.
Shannon Mattern: Yep.
Alecia St. Germain: Now , what I call the big assumption is really the contracted part that the brain created. Like if I do this, then bad things will happen. So, you know, I want to say for you, it was interesting. If I take more than I need, this is the one for whatever reason sticks out to me, but if I take more than I need, then I'm selfish and people won't like me.
Shannon Mattern: Yep
Alecia St. Germain: So of course, like why would you grow your business? And that's why I say to all of you. There's nothing wrong with you, a hundred percent, there's nothing wrong with you. It makes sense why you wouldn't want to grow your business, but the work comes in tearing those two pieces apart. Because it's not true that you would even take more than what you needed. We had to redefine what that even meant. Um, but it's really breaking some of those pieces apart because the world is not black and white, contracted is a lot of gray, it's a lot of gray. And so we consciously get to know when our feelings are being triggered and then choose a different path. Choose something that actually leads to our goal as opposed to keeping away the fearful things.
Shannon Mattern: Yeah. And I think, you know, for me, I spent so much of my life and I don't know, keeping away the fearful things I think was like how we were raised. Like in my family, it was always like, Oh, we're keeping the bill collectors at bay. We're keeping everything at bay. We're always in survival mode. And so, you know, you're keeping the fearful things at bay. But then like, I did have a transitional period where I'm like, okay, I don't have to do that anymore. But like that was still operating in the background, whether you know it or not. And I could like outwork it to a point. I could distract myself from it to a point. But then, you know, when things start to get "hard" where it's like, okay, l like Nellie in our change agents mastermind said to me, you've outgrown your dream now what? And then it's like, well I'll stay here. Of course. It's comfortable, it's safe. It's not scary. And really that's, you know, that's just not been my nature before, but I bumped up against like the, if I go for more, I'll be going well beyond what I feel like people will accept me for.
Alecia St. Germain: Right. And then you also had fears, like if you grew more, you'd become like, would be seen by your community as untouchable. Like she can do it, but I really can't. And it's like, you don't want to be too good cause you don't want people to think they can't do it too.
Shannon Mattern: Yeah. Like she is so far beyond us. It's unfathomable that I could exactly grow my business. Like how I think of like Amy Porterfield, for example. Like how I used to think of that. I don't think that way anymore. I'm like, okay, I can see how I could have a multi-million dollar business. But I'd be like, Oh, well, you know, I couldn't possibly do what she does, you know? And so I didn't want people to think the way I thought about other people about me. Cause then I was just like, well then they're not going to take action on what I teach. And you know, that, all of that thought spiral that swirls down the toilets.
Alecia St. Germain: Exactly. Well, and, and it sounds so noble.
Shannon Mattern: It does, right. It does. Yes.
Alecia St. Germain: Well, but it ultimately is self-serving because you could trigger people. Someone who makes a lot of money will oftentimes trigger people and you can become a target. And it doesn't feel good. Um, but here's the thing being so sure of your calling and knowing that what you're doing is for the right reasons and that you have, like good intentions are great, but when they land bad, it doesn't feel good.
Shannon Mattern: Right.
Alecia St. Germain: And I always talk about this with you in the group is like, if you feel triggered come to me and tell me. Don't talk about it behind people's backs. Don't go to a million people and complain about what was done to you. Go to the source and say, Hey, you triggered me. And then let me figure out a better way to say it so that you can hear those hard things. And that's in a coaching sense. Like, um, you know, it works in personal life too. You know, I have a mentor who I really respect and she really taught me that it's not about being right. In life, if you want to be right you're always gonna lose. Because it's really about human connection and being with other people. And you didn't intend to hurt someone when you got mad and said something mean, or whatever, or when you got frustrated with your client or whatever it was. Your intention probably wasn't to hurt someone. It was just that part of you that was angry because you want to be seen for who you are. And so, as a leader, as somebody who's an entrepreneur, somebody who's stepping into a bigger role, it's really about having the humbleness to realize that you aren't going to get it perfect. And it's your responsibility to keep trying to land your message until that person can hear you. And if they can't, that's their responsibility to do the work too, so that they can hear you.
Shannon Mattern: So good. So good. I want to kind of circle back to, you know, the business owner, the side hustler, the person who's listening to this podcast. And for a long time, they have had a goal to grow this business, to replace their paycheck, to make this their full-time income. But they are not either taking action toward that goal. They're consuming a lot of content, but not doing anything with it. They're gathering knowledge, but they're not taking action. What are some of the common big assumptions that you see operating for those people?
Alecia St. Germain: Perfectionism? It's a looking good conversation. Like, I don't want to put it out there until it's perfect, until it looks good. And what will people think if I fumble through it? You're in a beta program right now and you see it evolving and you all knew coming into it that it was a beta program, but the only way I'm going to make it better is if I'm open to taking that feedback and perfectionism is something I think is rampant just because of how we're raised. There's only one right answer. You work alone. It's all about the test result. It's not the process. You don't get graded on the process. You get graded on the results you got. So that idea that we have to get it perfect is ingrained in us. I already see it in my first grader. She was getting really anxious around math questions and she started to cry and it was because she was afraid she wasn't going to get it right.
Alecia St. Germain: And so I was like, okay, we're going to bust this up right here. You are going to have a love of failure. And so I would say, you just got to do it. And for every single one you get wrong and we work together to correct, you get a Skittle. Like, I don't know if you're supposed to reward with candy, but like what I wanted her to associate was it wasn't about getting it right. It was about getting it wrong and figuring out why you got it wrong and then getting it right. Because that's what you have to be willing to do as an entrepreneur is fail over and over and over again. So perfectionism, I think is, is one thing. What the big assumption is, it's hard to say, like, because they're not the same. It's in people's words. And what's powerful to one person is not to another. But it's really comes down to like perfectionism looking good, wanting to be liked.
Alecia St. Germain: And if you think about it, like wanting to be liked is about being part of a community. That's basic human survival, Wanting to not make a mistake. Gosh. I mean, if you make a mistake in nature, like that could get you killed. So you think about all the things that go back to that primal caveman I was talking about. Being alone is very common. Which is kind of like part of that being liked piece. And what's interesting for you if you're somebody who's like hesitating to be seen, oftentimes it manifests as not being seen. Like you hide. And what's interesting is when you really dive in and look at who are you afraid to be seen by? For some people, it's their family. For other people it's their community of professionals that they're part of. You know, like, doctors to other doctors or something like that. And you're doing something that's different. So it could be with authority. So when you actually dive in, like, who am I really afraid of? And then you look back into your past, you probably have a history there of wanting to obey authority and be the good girl. You even talked in our mastermind about you were the easy one. And so you learned that being easy was good.
Shannon Mattern: Yep. Fly under the radar.
Alecia St. Germain: And here's the funny thing is like, as you're raising kids, after we had that conversation, I even noticed in my daughter... My son is super headstrong and very relentless. As is my daughter, but she has more of that I want to be a good girl sort of mindset. And understand, even as the coach who sees this is happening, you have to understand, number one, it could totally drive you crazy because you're trying make sure you coach your child into being perfect, like into not having all the things. And then you're creating perfectionism. So, I even struggle with it, is my point. And I see it in her and I was like, Oh my gosh, she's totally witnessing Jack being a little tyrant. And my husband and I are frustrated.
Alecia St. Germain: And then she's like leaving little love notes for us all over the house. Cause she's like trying to keep the peace, trying to make it all okay. And make mom and dad happy. And I had a discussion with her and she's like I just don't want Jack to get in trouble. That's going to be her work, right? Like later on in life she's going to have to work through that. And so you are all responsible. Kids are responsible for the work they're going to have to do to get what they want in life. And I just really had to accept that that was going to happen. And the best thing I could do was show other people in this world, my kids, you, your listeners, what it looks like to do the work. And that's what I love about you. Shannon. Is you're so open about it and you are willing to let people see that it takes inner work to get what you want.
Shannon Mattern: Well, I appreciate you saying that. And it's actually very self-serving to me to be this open and I don't do it in like a marketing way or like anything like that. It's just easier to be honest and transparent than to pretend like I have it all together when I really don't have it all together. And I am just testing and, you know, trying and failing. And I don't even consider outcomes failures. I just like try stuff and see what happens. And if it didn't work the way I expected, I try something else. And I think that's just the IT tech person in me that thinks of things that way. So it's kind of self-serving for me to be this transparent. Cause it's just easier. Like, it's just easier to say it how I would say it to a friend. I tried back when I first started the business to be the corporate buttoned up version of the web designer.
Shannon Mattern: And I was just like I am stifled and I can't. And I feel like I'm constantly questioning how I should say it. And so it is just easier. So I'm glad it worked out. I'm glad it helps other people. And I'd like to say that I do it because I have such a generous heart. And I do feel very grateful that it does help people, but I can't take the "credit".
Alecia St. Germain: Or you might be taking more than you need.
Shannon Mattern: That's true. I could talk to you for another hour, but unfortunately we are coming up on time. I have one more question for you that I ask everybody that comes on the show and that is what belief about yourself did you have to change to get where you are today?
Alecia St. Germain: Oh, it's recovering perfectionist, a hundred percent. A hundred percent. Well, let me share my own big assumption. My own big assumption was that if I actually step up and highlight myself and really step fully into who I was supposed to be to help others, that I would cross the line and become a pompous egotistical asshole. Am I allowed to say that word? But like the word was, and I'm not a big Swearer, but like that was really in an emotional moment what popped out is that I was going to become one of those people who lets it go to their head. And so I played small. Because of that. And so I still have to work through that, but perfectionism was one of those pieces because I was so like, controlled to make sure I never became that person. And it was exhausting and this is so much easier. Right. As you said.
Shannon Mattern: Uh, so good. So where can everybody go to connect with you learn more about, you learn more about immunity to change and learn all of the ways that you can help them reach those big goals that they keep saying that they want over and over and over again, but just not quite being able to get there.
Alecia St. Germain: Super simple. You go to the ConsciousEdge.com ConsciousEdge.com. And I would highly recommend, we just got this template together for the shared decision-making method. One of the things I think most people struggle with when they find themselves at a plateau is there is a decision that you are not making that if you would make it, it would jump your business forward. So it definitely would highly recommend that you grab that template. We just got it back from the graphic designer. It is the beautiful. And all of the information to get in contact with me is there.
Shannon Mattern: Awesome. So I will link that up in the show notes. So you can go to shannonmattern.com/328. You can go to the ConsciousEdge.com, get your hands on that. You are going to definitely want to be in Alicia's world. So Alicia, thank you so much for being here. This will be the first of many conversations I'm sure we have for everybody. So I really, really appreciate your time.
Shannon Mattern: Awesome. Thank you so much for having me Shannon. It's always a pleasure.
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