Ep. 358: How to Authentically Grow Your Service-Based Business with Loran Greeter

Shannon Mattern: Welcome to episode 358 of pep talks for side hustlers. And I am so excited to introduce you to guest Loran Geeter. She is a business and operations coach helping OBM System Strategists and VA's stop skipping steps so that they can position their expert authority and step into their role as CEO. So Loran, thank you so much for being here. Can you share a little bit more with our listeners about you and kind of how you got into doing what it is that you do?

Loran Geeter: Well, hello everyone. And thank you so much for having me. I am really excited. I could talk about the kind of stuff we're going to be talking about all day. So thank you so much for having me. And yes, as far as just a little bit more about me. So yes, I started my business after I got laid off from my job. It took me over a year to find it and they laid me off eight months in and it was so devastating for me. And so once they laid me off, I said, I'm not experiencing that again. Not the lay-off. That's kind of how I got my start. I got laid off. And then I just said, well, there's gotta be another way to do something. And so then I became a VA.

Loran Geeter: And so I was doing all the things of a VA, social media manager, all that stuff, and the thing that I always wanted to do, the thing that I've always done, which is systems and helping people with their systems and I'm niched down. I absolutely loved offering systems. But then that love turned into a love of helping service providers online. And so from there, I just decided that since it was so difficult in my journey to become a service provider that I want to coach other service providers so that they don't have to experience what I experienced. So that's kind of my little story all jumbled in like 30 seconds, but that's how I got my start. And that's how I got to where I am now.

Shannon Mattern: I love that. You're like I struggled with being a service provider and I want to help other people not go through that. Can you share a little bit more about that, what that looked for you and how you help people?

Loran Geeter: So I'll be honest. Where that came from, I was doing what probably a lot of the people listening are doing, or a lot of people who, when you decide that you want to start a business, the first thing you start doing is just consume a whole bunch of free information. And when you consume all that information, you're consuming it from that person's perspective, from their journey, from what it is that they think is right. Some of it is right. Some of it is just regurgitated from some other coach that they learned it from. And so it was navigating all of that information, constantly implementing different things that different people thought. And so that was one thing that was major for me, all the freebies, all the funnels that I found myself in, all of those things, I realized that there is a lot of information, but there's also again, because I help service providers,

Loran Geeter: I come from that perspective. And so while there is a lot of different ways that you can do things there's also the best practice. And so I wanted to help people to skip all of the, 'you should be doing this' and 'you should be doing that' and teach people from a best practice. Like, yes, these are options, but here is a best practice for how you can achieve whatever it is you're trying to achieve. And so that is probably the core way that I help people is to show them what is the best practice as far as how to navigate mindset for being a service provider? What is the best practice for creating a client experience? What's the best practice for how you should show up online beyond just posting pretty pictures, right? Like really positioning yourself. What is the best practice to put all this stuff that you are learning into practice and not relapse and go back into your old habits. And so that's the perspective I take it from. And again, the reason for that is just because everything that I listed out, I did a hundred percent wrong when I started. And then once I figured it out, I'm like, 'yeah, no, never again'. I don't want anybody that comes across me to ever struggle with that again?

Shannon Mattern: Oh my gosh. I resonate with you so, so much. Everything that you just said is everything that I went through, also trying to figure out my business. Somebody over here saying that I need to be on Pinterest. Somebody over here saying I need to do webinars. Somebody over here saying that I need to do this. And you want it so bad. Right? You want it so bad that you're like, 'okay. All right. Just tell me what to do. I'll do it. Just tell me what to do. I'll do it'. And then you end up spreading yourself so crazy thin, you're so burnt out. You don't even have time to do the work that you want to do, which is provide the service. You're spending money left and right. And you're not seeing any return. And you're just like, if you're like me, I don't know how I can keep going with this. So it sounds like you experienced that initial kind of startup, I don't even know, frenzy overwhelm?

Loran Geeter: I definitely did. It was like everything you just said. And then there's people that tell you to niche down and you don't want niche. And you get burned out before even before you get started. Which is crazy because once you get started and money starts to flow and then you want to outsource things or delegate or hire a team or whatever. And then you need to continuously show up online, all these things, all of that takes so much brain power. But if you've spent the first six to 12 months of your business doing all the things get you burnt out, by the time you get to this point of where you should start to think about scaling, you're burnt out. And so it becomes really hard for you to make those really big CEO or entrepreneur decisions because you consumed and did all the things so early on. Which is understandable because when you see someone who appears to be successful, you want to do everything that they say. But if you're following 57 successful people, right?

Loran Geeter: And that's why I always say the number one thing is to just watch what you consume. Watch what you consume. And I'll stop there because I'll go off on a tangent.

Shannon Mattern: Oh, no, I agree. Because I love that you said appears to be successful. Appears to be successful. Okay, I'm going to toot my own horn here for a second. Because I published my income reports down to the penny every single month, since 2018. You've seen not just how much I make, but how much I spend to make how much I make. And that's transparency. Whether you want to call me successful or not, I don't care. I'm talking about transparency here. And people, there's a difference between appearing to be successful and being transparent.

Loran Geeter: Yes. Yes. And I love that you said appearing because I said that, but I was just going to glaze over.

Shannon Mattern: No, I was hooked right into that.

Loran Geeter: And that's another thing to just keep in mind, like you said, "appears". It's very hard to differentiate between appearing to be successful and actually being successful because in my eyes, even with as much money as I've made in my business and how long I've been in business, all of that aside, I still feel like success is so much bigger than this. But success can be making a bunch of money if that's what you want. But success can also be the fact that you haven't had to go back to a nine to five. Success could be the fact that you are getting people to say yes to you. And maybe you're breaking even right now, but you have found something that people are willing to invest in. That's success too.

Loran Geeter: And I think it's important to think about that, especially as a side hustler or as a beginner. Because it's really easy for you to overlook the things that are considered small wins. Like the fact that you got someone to invest with you. That's a success. And it took me a long time to realize that everyone that appears to be successful isn't necessarily a success by my standards. What is a success by my standards? I love that you made that point because it took me a while to realize that I need to even think about what I think success is.

Shannon Mattern: Oh my gosh, I love that so much. And yes, like it's about freedom. It's like, oh, I got to pick my kids up from, I don't have kids, but I got to pick my kids up from school without having to ask. I got to go do what I wanted to do without having to ask permission from somebody else.

Loran Geeter: One of my biggest things, and I still love it so much. I love the fact that I can go to the grocery store on a Tuesday. I don't have to go after work when everyone else is going.

Shannon Mattern: Right? Yes. And I've talked to people on this podcast who make millions of dollars in their business and they are miserable, miserable. They're broke and miserable because everything goes right back out the door to pay, to make the million dollars. And they are in debt. They're broke and they're miserable. And I'm like, how is that success? And you know, I'm not throwing anybody under the bus because we talked about that on the podcast of that's not the way to do that, but it's just like you said, be careful what content you're consuming and who you're following and make sure that you're building the kind of business that you actually want. You're building what you want to do day in and day out. And you're not just like recreating a different trap that, you know, you're leaving one trap for another.

Loran Geeter: And it's important to remember that from day one though, because I will be honest. I got caught up in that. When I first started my business, I was thinking about the things I wanted. I wanted to just be able to go to the grocery store whenever I want. I'm sick of having to go to the nail shop on a Saturday with everyone else. I just want to be able to take a vacation without having to put the time in. Those were the things that I wanted. And it's not to say that you can't dream bigger than that, right? But at the same time, the moment that you start not watching what you consume, then all of a sudden you have this desire to make $50,000 a month. Like Loran, where did that even come from? You've never even thought about making $50,000 a month when you were working your nine to five. Now all of a sudden if you don't make that you you're terrible? So I think it's important to keep those beginning desires in mind. What is that beginning desire that you have? And again, it's not saying that you can't dream bigger than that, but the moment you lose sight of that is the moment that you start comparing yourself, and all of the things. I could go on about that forever, because that was my life for a long time.

Shannon Mattern: So let's talk about how you shifted out of that. Like, what was the breaking point for you or the turning point for you that had you be like, okay, enough and yeah. Like pivot to where you are, how, how you're being now and how you're approaching things now. I, um, I'm so sorry. Um, can you hear the background? Um, no, but I'm glad I'm gonna, I'm gonna make a note here to tell my team, my internet is being crazy. And if we're going to like pause for a second, I'm going to go like, get a wire and plug in. Yeah.

Loran Geeter: We can totally pause. Cause they just, I

Shannon Mattern: Can't hear it. But like, if you ask that, I'm like, okay, I need to, because I just like, I keep you, you're breaking up. And I know that it's on my side cause I have crappy internet. Cause I live in the country and I'm like, where's my wire. Where's my thinking. It's not in here. So,

Loran Geeter: So every now and then I get bad internet in my office. So since you're moving, I'm going to move downstairs where I know I get better just to make sure that we're both good.

Shannon Mattern: Cool. I'm going to leave the recording going and then cool. Awesome. I'm glad you, yes, me. See

Loran Geeter: Where's Antonio and make sure he's not Alliance way home. Come on. So many things connected to so many things. One, what is connected here is crazy. Hopefully this will be better. I think so too. I think between you using your plug and me moving into my kitchen where the internet is best, I think we should be fine.

Shannon Mattern: I'm going to tell my team about 20 minutes for editing. Cool. But no, I couldn't hear whatever was going on, but I took the opportunity to interact. It's like our conversation is so good. I didn't want it.

Loran Geeter: I didn't want to say anything either when I first heard them, but I just, I could hear it getting louder and louder and I didn't want any problems. Okay. All right. Sorry about that interruption. I can't usually hear them from the kitchen so they should be perfect.

Shannon Mattern: Cool. So, um, the question that I asked and I'll just let you jump in, um, without, um, without trying to like, they'll just end my question, start with you. Uh, but it was along the lines of like, what was, what was it that, um, caused you to shift from like doing all the things to being like, okay, no we're done with that best practices. Let's do what you know.

Loran Geeter: So that's such a good question because it kind of, some of it kind of stems from what you just said as far as one, I had to realize, and I know it's so much easier said than done, but I had to realize that a lot of what I was seeing online just wasn't real. It just, it wasn't real. Um, and I knew it. I could just tell that some of it wasn't real and I, oh, I think part of how I saw it is when I would enroll in certain things or I would join a Facebook community or I would enroll in someone's program or something like that. And then of course, you know, when you invest with people, sometimes they will be more transparent with you about what's really going on. And that was a light switch moment for me. And then also being a virtual assistant, I got to work in a lot of back ends of businesses and, and I, you know, was just able to see a few things.

Loran Geeter: But, so that was kind of the first thing. Um, because as an entrepreneur, regardless of where you are in your business mindset is going to be the number one thing that you are always working on, no matter where you are, whether you're trying to go from $0 to a thousand, from a thousand to 5,000, from 10,000 to a million, whatever, wherever you are, you're always going to need to do mindset work. So with that being said, I had to just also tell myself that, um, you know, yes, this is hard to do. Yes. It's hard for me to wrap my mind around this, but I have to understand that everyone, like, like I said, everyone is not doing what they appear to be doing in the online space or wherever you're following people. But then also I just had to realize that I can't put aside who Loranis outside of my business, outside of my business, Loranhas boundaries.

Loran Geeter: Loranknows how to, uh, manage her money properly. Loranknows how to, uh, I'm, I'm very boundary field just as a person. And so I started to lose sight of that in my business because I want it to allow, I want us to get all the clients. I want us to work with all the people. And so I started to lose sight of that. And then I had to remember that this is not who you are, Loran, this is not who you were prior to starting your business. And so once I realized that, and then I know I'm being a little long-winded here, but the last thing I'll say about that is I realized that there were some things in my personal life that I was suppressing, um, that my business brought to the forefront. So realizing that I knew that I had those issues and then realizing, um, that my business was just highlighting them and that I need to fix them in both areas. Um, in order for me to get past these things,

Shannon Mattern: Oh my gosh, I can relate to that so much too. It's like the whole business journey was a personal growth journey that I didn't know I was going on. And I couldn't agree with you more about mindset. It's like, that's, that's where we get like, well, me personally, I won't speak for you, but like I got so wrapped up in do, do, do tactics strategies, doing things this, that, to where it's like, I didn't know. It had nothing to do with that. Whether I was going to be successful or not. It had to do with like how I was thinking about myself, what I truly believed, um, how I thought about my confidence, um, what I thought about money, um, all of that stuff. So can you share a little bit more about like what some of those mindset shifts you had to make along the way, um, what those looked like personal or professional, whatever you feel comfortable sharing and don't ever feel long-winded because like that's how good conversations happen.

Loran Geeter: I, listen, I am notorious for feeling long-winded so, but I'm glad you said that though. So some of the mindset shifts that I had to make did, one of them did pertain to money. Um, and it was, uh, do I deserve to make this much money or do I deserve to not even do I deserve to make this much money? Do I deserve to charge this amount of money? Um, and I'm talking pennies at the time, just like, do I even deserve to charge this? Why should someone pay me? Why should someone pick me? It was always me constantly questioning, why me, why do I deserve? Um, and so that was one thing that I definitely had to get over. I had to get over the mindset. Um, and this one is probably super cliche, but just, um, uh, the whole concept around niching down.

Loran Geeter: And I think that's because, um, we hear niche down so much, pick a thing, pick one thing, whatever it is. But I think we hear it so much that it just becomes something that we think we're supposed to do, but that's a whole mindset shift of going from, I am good at all these things. Why should I just offer one thing to understanding the power and offering one thing? The power of being an expert in building authority around one thing was a huge mindset shift for me. And then I would say the final one was just the mindset shifts of going from a nine to five purse, a nine to five employee to having a business that was a major mindset shift for me because now I've got to manage my time. Now I realized that my nine to five, there was a system and a process for everything.

Loran Geeter: Now I got to create all those systems and processes. And so it was very, very difficult to realize that, um, uh, what we think is a lot of money as a nine to five employee, turns out to not be a lot of money when you have a business, when you have a business, because you've got to do all of the things and all, and you're funding a hundred percent of it. And so all of those things are great and they're okay. But when, until you get past the mindset, drama, that all of that stuff brings, then it, you know, it's a little rough, but it's, you know, it's good lessons to learn.

Shannon Mattern: Yeah. And the ones that you said that, like, I also, not only did I have to go through my, like the peer listeners to this podcast, my students and all of the things like they, they go through that too. And that this whole, you know, you're undercharging and undervaluing yourself and, you know, undervalue, it's not even like the way I got over it. And I, and I'll be, I'll be really interested to hear how you get the, how you got over it. The way I got over, it was kind of like a roundabout way, because I still didn't want to do that in our work on myself to believe that like I was worthy or I didn't know I needed to do that work. Right. It know how to do that work. So I sidestepped the worthiness work and that's really the work that I'm doing in my business now, which is really interesting.

Shannon Mattern: But I side stepped it back then to be like, okay, well, what's the longterm value to my client to have me doing this work for them. Like, it's way the heck more than I'm charging them. Like, I'm a, I'm a web. I was a web designer now I teach web designers. But, um, it was like, oh, I can build a website, a thousand dollars. Oh, that's way too much. I couldn't possibly charge that. I learned how to do all this for free on my own. Why would someone pay me? They can learn how for free on the internet. I teach a free course on how to do it. Why would they ever pay me? So I went through all of that stuff, but then it's like, oh, but by having this website, they can make 10,000, 20,000. Like they, they could not make before having it. So it's, it's all about like, if they didn't have you doing the thing that you do so amazingly well for them, they don't get the result.

Loran Geeter: Exactly. Because you have put in so much time and so much energy. And so like, you didn't wake up and become good at web design. You've spent a lot of time and energy and, and, uh, and, and all of the things that you did and they haven't done any of that. And so that is why they should pay you. Um,

Shannon Mattern: They're starting from zero and you're starting from all the experience that you bring to the table, expertise, credibility, um, all the things you think you don't have, you have, they have none of it. You have all of it.

Loran Geeter: Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. That, and so I guess the reason, or the way that I was able to kind of get past that was, um, I would say I started to do more research. So bef, prior to becoming a coach, I used to almost say used to, cause I still do it for my clients. Um, uh, I was setting up a client management system for my clients called up Sato. And so I was set that up for them. And I would always question like, well, you know, dev Sato has all kinds of resources on YouTube, on, in their Facebook group, all kinds of things, um, teaching them. So like, why would they pay me to do it? And not only why would they pay me? Why would they pay me $5,000 to do it? And so once I started to do more research on what I really think did it for me, was me doing research on outside of, um, uh, [inaudible] like outside of, yes, my clients think that they need up Sato setup, but what they are really looking for is they are in, they're looking to attract higher quality clients.

Loran Geeter: They're looking for a better client experience. They're looking for all of these things that they can only get if they work with me using my knowledge. And so I started to realize that I was, I guess, the secret sauce, like I was the reason why they wanted to work with me, not just because they want it to set up the Sato, but they wanted a better overall experience. They wanted, um, uh, more brand consistency, all of these things. But that came from me doing research that came from me, realizing that setting up of Sato solves like 57 other problems for you. And so that's why you should pay me. Um, and so once I started doing that, I realized that, oh, okay, this is deeper than just the thing that I offer. I'm solving all these other problems. Um, because I've got people a year down the line still coming to me, thanking me for the work that I did and telling me, you know, just the transformation has made for them. And then that was what kind of made the light bulb kind of clicked for me.

Shannon Mattern: You gave me chills just saying that because that's a free thing truly. And that's when you talk about like, resisting, like that's all kind of tied up with the niche too, because it's, it's not about, we make it all about us. Like, oh, I'm not worthy. Who am I to, what should I choose? I have this skill and it's not, it's all about the client. It's all about the person that we work for. I think of niches, like the problem I solve for this type of person. Right. So you're like, okay, like, I don't know if he's like still do dumb Sato work, but like dub Sato is the tool that I use, but it's not the problem. Isn't dub Sato setup. Like you said, it's like 57 other things in your business that this solves and that, that client doesn't know what they don't know. They don't know what you know about the possibilities and the capabilities. And, you know, you shortcut that for them immensely. And there's just so many pieces of that, that it's like, uh, yeah, here's my credit card. Please help me. Like, you're going to not it's $5,000, but you're saving me 50.

Loran Geeter: Uh, yes, absolutely. And you're gonna make tons of money if w when we do this right together. Cause yeah, I could go on and on about what the actual problem that I'm solving, but yes, um, you are right about that. And I think that once you can get that through your brain, that you are solving a much greater prob problem than just the service that you're offering. Then that's when you can start to, I'm not saying it'll happen overnight, but that's when the mindset shift starts to happen. That's when the light bulbs start to go off.

Shannon Mattern: And for me, it took me longer to have that realization because I was a DIY or I'm like, oh, I'm not paying anybody for anything. I can figure this out myself, you know? And that's how, and when you do that, like I did, I think then you think, well, no one else would pay for anything. Either they can figure it out themselves. It's like once I started investing in paying people for stuff, like my business got weight easier.

Loran Geeter: Yeah. Because your pain life got better. There there's zone of genius. Right. You're paying people to do what they are good at and yeah. You could figure it out. But why would you, when this person over here has already done all the work, they figured out all of the, in my case that up Sato, I figured out all the bells and whistles, all the things that don't work and up saddle, all the things that do work. I figured out all of that.

Shannon Mattern: Yeah. And I think why they don't do it, why I didn't do it was because I had a deeper mindset issue that I needed to work on about will this business really be successful? And what does it mean if I invest money and then it doesn't work out and then I'm a failure. And so to avoid those deeper, that deeper work, I just DIY, right? Yeah.

Loran Geeter: Yeah. That's so valid. That's a valid, I think that we all kind of wonder that. And I think the way that I kind of got past that was I started to look at things as investments instead of expenses. And, um, it is an investment. And when I started looking like at that, even down to like the people that I hire when I started looking at things as investment versus expenses, it changed the way that I looked at it because, and I also say the moment that something, regardless of what it is, the moment that something starts to feel an expense over an investment, I let it go. I don't just keep investing and keep throwing money at something, trying to fix it or trying to, if it doesn't feel, if it doesn't immediately, not immediately, but if it doesn't feel like an investment when I do it, and it feels like an expense, then I'm not doing it.

Loran Geeter: Oh, I'm going to stop investing in it. If it's like something that's recurring. And that kind of helped me to, um, to, to, I guess, to kind of shift some of that mindset for me was to just kind of think of things as an investment. Like Loran, you need this, you've been struggling with this. You can't do it. So let an expert do it. And then when they do it, you know, again, of course you also want to use discernment right. With the investments you make. But when you do just kind of look at it as, as a, as an investment that is going to make you money back and it might be a mind trick. Cause it took me a little bit of time to, but eventually, um, you know, my investments paid off.

Shannon Mattern: Yeah. So tell me how you work with clients. Now, you started as a VA, you were like doing all the things, trying to get all the clients, get to the point where you're like, I'm going to stop looking at what everybody else is telling me to do and shift into like kind of trusting yourself. Right. And really kind of looking inward and, um, kind of overcoming these mindset things. Then how did, what did you start doing?

Loran Geeter: So, um, I, so now, so today I'm a positioning and systems coach. So I, um, help service providers online. I help them to, uh, position themselves in the online space, but not even just about positioning in the online space position, um, yourself, so that not only are you positioned well in the online space, but you are, um, positioned to, uh, to grow from the back end. So, and that just means like creating the right offers, um, creating the client experience and things like that. Um, but the, um, how I kinda got to that point was the whole, the niching down part. So when I went from being a BA social media manager, I think at some point I was even a podcast assistant though. I didn't know what the heck I was doing. Um, then eventually when I decided to niche down to systems and setting up DAP Sato, it, it, it really opened up so many things, things I was able to create courses and intensives and all sorts of things.

Loran Geeter: And through that, it improved through, through creating those one-off offers all stemming from me, niching down, it was causing me to do research. So now at that point I was learning even more about what service providers were struggling with. I was learning even more about their mindset issues because, uh, well, yeah, learning even more just about all the different layers of the person that I would want it to work with. And it wasn't just the fact that, oh, this is hard. No, there's a reason why this is hard. And so through all of that stuff, and then I was, I was able to figure out, okay, um, I, that service providers have problems. Now I know why they have problems because of all the research I've done. And then I created my signature program, which is called built for authority. And, um, and that program is where I helped my students to, like I said, position themselves in the online space. I helped them to really uncover the mindset issues that they have around even accepting that they are worthy enough for where they, you know, where they currently are. Um, and so I helped them do that. And, um, that is, you know, my flagship offer, I still do offer DUP saddle setups for clients, um, through a referral base or, you know, whenever someone finds out. But, um, for the most part, my number one concern is helping service providers to grow and scale their business from wherever they are.

Shannon Mattern: That's so awesome that, you know, you're like, it's not only positioning in the online space, but it's like positioning your business to grow. And I think that that's like one of the pieces that, I mean, when you, when you don't, you have a still, and you want to get paid to do the skill, that's one thing. But then learning how to like structure and run a business for like future success and health is like a whole nother thing that we don't even know. We need to figure out until we're like in it. And everything's like, why is it, why is this not working? And why am I stressed? And oh wait, cause I'm reinventing the wheel every single day.

Loran Geeter: Yes, yes. Reinventing the wheel every single day and skipping steps and going right to the, I like to say like the good part quote unquote, which is, um, which is exactly what I did when I started my business. I was a VA. And then I just said, you know what, I'm going to go. I'm going to buy my domain. I'm going to make my website. And then I'm just going to get online and start selling. There are so many steps that I skipped and I skip those steps. But what I did do was I bought a t-shirt, I got business cards made. I was all the crazy stuff, the fun stuff. Right. I did all of those things and I didn't even know who the heck I was trying to serve or who I was trying to like really, even what my offer was. I didn't know any of this stuff, but I was cute on social media.

Loran Geeter: So, um, that was, um, so that's kind of what I help people do. Um, I do work with more experienced service providers and I just help them to, um, to stop skipping those steps, to stop, to realize that being on social media is nice, but that's not a marketing plan. That's not how you grow and scale your business because, and I'm a prime example. I've pivoted from VA to DUP Sato to coach. If I didn't have these foundational elements, there's no way that my audience would have followed me. There's no way that I would have been able to pivot, um, without missing a beat. I was able to do that because I didn't skip the steps, um, that I needed to take to get your well at the beginning, I was skipping all the steps, but then once I realized it, I, I, I was able to pivot to different things successfully.

Shannon Mattern: I love that. You said that like, you know, social media is not the end all be all. And I think that, I see so many people want to start there. Well, a, they either want to start there or they think they have to start there and they don't want to start there so that they just don't do anything. And I'm like, that's, once you have clarity on your ideal client, you know exactly everything that you said, and you have an offer that actually people want to buy and you're making like consistent revenue, great. Your social media to scale. That's fine. But like to start there is and put all the time in like in create, I call it create mode versus do mode. It's like, oh, I'm making all the things. Everything looks pretty. It all looks perfect. It's all this, but I am, I have not even ever like had a client yet, or I don't even know what I would do for that client. And you create motive safe, right? There's no risk.

Loran Geeter: Yes. It's very safe. I love that. You just said that it's safe because it is safe. It's easy to kind of just get out because, you know, there's, especially with like tools like today, like canvas, and you can just go on Canva and you can make a graphic and you can throw your picture on it. And you know, creating is so much easier than it is to figure out who you want to serve. Does this offer actually align with what they value as a consumer? Um, and somebody listening to this may not even understand what that means. You've got to figure out what that means or else when you get out there and talk about your offer, what are you really talking about? And then the, and then the only thing you can say is click the link in my bio. You don't have a way to really help people to see why they need your offer, because you don't even understand your own value. You've got to do some of that work before you start getting out there and saying to people, click the link in my bio for what, what are they going to do when they click the link in your bio? And so, um, so yes, I love that. You just said it's safe because it is safe. I was stuck in create mode for a long time. And it's, it's very comfortable there, uh, until you look up and then you've made no money,

Shannon Mattern: Then it's not so safe. And it's scary to put yourself out there and say, Hey, you know, can I talk to you about this? Like, or, Hey, I can put your flag in the ground and be like, I can solve this problem for you. I can help you solve this problem. Like, people get scared of initiating or putting forth, like with confidence, like, I can help you with this. They're like, oh, but if you come to me first, then you wanted me. And like, I'd rather you come to me first and hire me than me go out there and just put, like, just say with confidence that like, I can help you. Like, if this is you, I can help you. That's because you're risking rejection. You're risking people saying, who do you think you are? How dare you say you can help me. Like, you're risking negative feedback. You're risking maybe finding out that, you know, you have some work to do on your positioning or, you know, people saying, no, like, that's the scary part, but that's the part that like, when you work with someone like you, you help your clients navigate through those scary parts. I would imagine. Yes,

Loran Geeter: I do. I help them to realize the power in positioning. Um, and that, because I will definitely be honest and say that I didn't even know what positioning was at first. Like I did. I mean, I think like had you probably the definition of positioning, I did understand that it was important, but I didn't understand that it was something that I should focus on. So early on, um, which I will say, you know, to anyone who's listening, who may not necessarily who may be struggling with their side hustle, I will be honest and say, I understand why you don't focus on that. You don't focus on that because you're probably at a point where you just need to make money. I don't have time to be focusing on trying to invest in mindset and positioning and all of that stuff. Um, so I understand why you kind of skip that part, but if nothing else, I want to make sure that you understand that that is probably one of the most important things that you're going to learn, because it, I always say to my students, if you can figure out how to position your offer, how to position yourself, then you can sell anything and you can sell it at whatever price you want to sell it at.

Loran Geeter: And that's why it's so important for you to learn how to do that from day one. And so, yes, I do help my students do that. I'm inside of my program. I do help them to, to understand the power of positioning from the inside out, meaning working on the client experience, working on the offer and then presenting it out into the world, um, you know, with a plan. Um, and so yes, that is absolutely, um, what I do with my students.

Shannon Mattern: Yeah. And I mean to spend, yes, I totally agree with you. People are like, but I got bills to pay and I want, I want to quit my job faster than ever. And it's like, you will actually go farther faster if you invest the time upfront to figure this stuff out. Then if you dive right in, take on any client at any price, undercharged get completely burnt out. Tate have to take on are way too many clients to make the kind of money that you want. Nobody's getting the best version of you, your clients, aren't getting the best version of you. You're burnout, you're resentful. And you're just like, oh, well, selling digital products for $27 is going to gotta be easier than working with clients. So I'm just going to do that instead. And then you're like, I can just sell 10,000 of these a month and that'll be fine. And you don't realize, oh, but you need to build an audience of like 150,000 people to make that work. And so you spin your wheels over, over again. If he would have just figured out the positioning and slowed down, you'd slow down to speed up.

Loran Geeter: And the funny thing about that, that I don't even think that people think about is, yeah, you could get out there and just sell a $27 thing and, or you could get out there and just offer all the things. Or you could just go out there thinking about sales first, but what's going to happen is it's not going to work. Um, and then you are going to spend all this time, building all the things, doing all the things, trying to sell it. And then at some point you're going to realize that what we're saying is correct, and you're going to have to come back and fix it anyway. So you're going to end up right back here anyway, regardless of how long it feels like it's working for you at some point, it's not going to work because you didn't do the foundational work and then you're going to be right back here trying to figure out what the problem is. And then one day you're going to realize that part of it is positioning. So I love what you just said, because I mean, I was once that way too. I felt like, well, you know what, who, who's not gonna want to buy a $27 offer. I'll just buy that with no audience with an open positioning, with a no anything. And then I ended up at positioning as being part of the issue.

Shannon Mattern: Yeah. I mean, the story I just told was like my own story. It wasn't like it wasn't anybody else's, but it, and it, this is what I always say. It like, it requires the same amount of pre-work work, foundational work to put $27 on an offer, as it does to put $27,000 on an offer to be able to sell it like, so why not do the work and put a higher price tag on it? Why not? And then you get scale with smaller offers later, if you want, after I figured it all out. But yeah, I agree. You, like I found myself back at, oh, I missed foundational steps. And then when I did those foundational steps, everything in my business changed, everything changed. Like I started making money. I started getting better. Clients, business got easier, but then I found myself in the position where I had not been, uh, I hadn't, I hadn't created the systems for growth. So I had another set of like pain to go through. And it's just like, I keep doing things out of order. Yeah. And having to fix them along the way, and then wanting to be like a cautionary tale for everybody else to be like, Hey, don't do what I did. Yes.

Loran Geeter: I guess there's nothing wrong with that. But if you could, like, it's hard. You could skip some of that. It would be nice. Right.

Shannon Mattern: Yeah. And I guess, because I'm like, I do teach because like, if, if you're never going to want to teach this to someone, please skip the pain. Thank

Loran Geeter: You. Thank you. I love that. You said that if you never plan on teaching or coaching, then you don't, you shouldn't subject yourself to all of this, you know, learn from me, take it from me. Like, yeah. That, that story is only cool when you're teaching. Right.

Shannon Mattern: Right. If it's like, oh, this I will profit from this pain later on. Right. Like I will be able to learn my lesson, figure out how to help somebody over it. Who's in the thick of it. Yeah. I wish I would stop touching the stove.

Loran Geeter: I wish I didn't have to learn all of my lessons

Shannon Mattern: To learn them the hard way. Oh, wait. I, when I pay for coaching, I don't learn them the hard way. Yeah. I learned them the easy way. That's one of the biggest lessons I've learned too,

Loran Geeter: Is, I mean, as a coach, you just, you're, you're kind of paying someone and I don't want to necessarily put this message out there, but you're kind of paying someone to tell you what to do. Like you're kind of you're cause part of the reason why you struggle so much in the beginning phases is all of the freaking decisions you're making that decision fatigue. You eliminate so much decision fatigue. When you invest in someone who's already been there, done that, um, and made all the mistakes like we just talked about and they already have a proven process of how to get you from point a to point B. You don't have any process to get you from point a to point B. You're just figuring it out. And so why not pay someone who's already quote unquote, figured it out to help alleviate some of those decisions so that you can just focus on what's the next right move.

Loran Geeter: And that was also a game changer for me, realizing that the issue for me was the decision fatigue I was. So I recently took a vacation, my husband and I, and some friends went to Mexico and my friend asked me, what was the thing that you like enjoy the most. It was not having to make any decisions about dinner, about what I'm doing today, about any of it. And so it was the same thing in my business, which is why I will continue to invest in things because it prevents it, it fixes some of the decisions that I have.

Shannon Mattern: Yeah, absolutely. I could not agree more. It's just like, and, and I think that, that kind of circles back to what we were talking about at the beginning. Yeah. Finding people who don't just appear to have a, like basic be a coach or like whatever, like finding people who actually, you know, are doing the thing that you want to do. Like, they, that's very specific. Anybody can teach you how to market your business. Right. And there's a thousand different tactics and strategies. So kind of coming back to what you said, it's like, what do you value? What do you want your life to look like? What do you want your business to look like? Um, you know, thinking about all of those things and then picking the person that's going to really help you create that for yourself.

Loran Geeter: Absolutely. Yeah. A hundred percent agree. Couldn't agree with you more. Yeah. That's exactly what I had to do. Had to pick a person that I felt that their values aligned with my values and that they could help me, um, get to where I've gone or gets where I'm trying to go. Cause they've been and all of the things, so yeah.

Shannon Mattern: Oh my gosh. I could talk to you for like two more hours, but our time is coming close to an end. So I have one more question for you that I ask everybody that comes on the show and that is what belief about yourself. Did you have to change to get to where you are today?

Loran Geeter: Um, I would say the belief that I observed more, um, and that I, uh, really getting, I kind of touched on this a little bit earlier, but it took me a long time to get out of that nine to five mindset. Um, I had to change the fact I had to change just believing that I did not just deserve what was given to me as, and what I mean by that is just, um, I worked I'm 35 years old for anyone listening. And so I, um, worked for 20 years of my life. And so it was such a structure. You go to work, you go home, you eat dinner, you watch TV, you go to bed and saying, you know, that, that whole routine that we are conditioned to when you have a nine to five. And so I believed about myself that I only deserve to make how much I was making.

Loran Geeter: I believe that I, I only deserve to that. I didn't deserve to take a vacation when I wanted to that I didn't deserve to have a house cleaner or, you know, I didn't deserve any of those things. I only deserved what I had had and I deserve to live paycheck to paycheck. And when you're in that mode, you don't think that that's all you deserve, but when you transition or when you start a business or when you're trying to go from side hustle to full-time entrepreneur, um, that's when those things really start to rear their ugly little heads, like, cause I will tell you when I first hired my CFO, she was like, um, she looks at my bank account. She was like, you don't spend any money. Do you? I was hoarding all of my money because I was, I was so afraid that this is this entire thing was one big fluke.

Loran Geeter: Like yeah, I got the last client to pay me, but then it's like, no, Loran, you've got like 50 clients to pay you. I think, I think it's okay at this point. And so I think that, that was the biggest thing for me to realize was just that all the work that I put in and I say this to my students all the time, all the work that you've put into your business and it doesn't even just, I'm not even talking about money-wise, I'm talking about the sacrifices, the fact that every time you're with your family. All you can think about is your business. That's a sacrifice, all the sacrifices you've made, and you've got the nerve to question the results that you get. And that's what I used to do. I would always, I would do all of this work and when something positive will come from the work, I would question why it had happened. And so that was one of the things that I had to shift that I, you know, that I didn't deserve what I was getting, regardless of how hard work I put in. And so I would say that that is the biggest shift that I had to make. Uh, as far as what I thought about myself, I thought that I only deserve to live the lifestyle that my nine to five at the time afforded me.

Shannon Mattern: Oh my gosh. That is so powerful. Like you gave me chills, just talking about that too. I could relate to that so much. So, uh, I, I hate that I have to wrap this up because I have my next interview scheduled, but, um, can you tell everybody where they can connect with you, find more about it, find out more about you find out more about built for authority, all the things.

Loran Geeter: So, yes. Um, I primarily hang out on Instagram. You can find me at LoranIlise collective on Instagram. Um, and you can also visit my website@Loranandlisacollective.com. Um, and so if you are interested in learning more about bill for authority, we, um, on my website, you can definitely click on bill for authority, learn all about it and you can apply for it. Um, and the reason why you have to apply is because I like to, I like to keep the community safe. And so, um, if you apply for, but if you're, if you look at the program and you're not quite ready on the site, we also have a built for authority. Roadmap was just kind of tell you the path that you need to take to prepare yourself to be built for authority. And so between my website and my Instagram is where you will find all the information about me.

Shannon Mattern: Awesome. Well, thank you so, so much for being here. I really appreciate it.