Ep. 325: Making the Move to a Membership Model with Lisa Princic of Scaling Deep

Speaker 2: Lisa. Thank you so much for being here on pep talks for side hustlers today. Can you share a little bit more with our listeners about you and what you do?

Speaker 3: Yeah, that's for sure. Thanks for having me Shannon. So my name is Lisa [inaudible] and my business is called scaling deep. And let's see how to describe that. So there's a double meaning here. And what, what I do is I'm a business strategist. I'm a membership growth strategist as well for, um, coaches, consultants, and professionals. And I help them get clarity on their business model and their value proposition, which I know these are unsexy words that people don't want to hear so that they can really own their like zone of genius and deliver amazing results over and over again to their clients and help them grow naturally in that way. So that is the, that's what my business does. And I, the whole scaling deep concept is also just more about the idea that we are designed to grow as humans. But we also, um, don't always want to do things about, it's not all about our ego. We, a lot of us care about the fulfilling aspect of life. And so how do we like meet our need to grow and evolve, but also like do what's meaningful. So that's what my brand civilized and I love sharing that. Cause that's really important to me

Speaker 2: That resonates with me so much. And I think, you know, when we first met, I was on your podcast. So I will go ahead and link up that episode so everyone can go check out the scaling deep podcast. Um, I think that that just resonates with me so much because you know, our, our conversation was like, it's just, it's there. If there's more, there's more to it than just, you know what I do for a living for, for both of us, um, why we started these businesses. So can you take me back to the early days and share with me kind of like the origin story of how you got started doing what you do?

Speaker 3: Yeah, absolutely. I it's it's long. So I'm going to try to cut it down because I have been like, when I hear people like, Oh, I've been doing this for five years. It's been a while. I'm like, no, no, no.

Speaker 2: So in 2000,

Speaker 3: Let's see, uh, nine, I would say, I, I officially said hi. I put everyone. I knew on my mailing list and said, hi, I'm a coach, a life coach because I'd taken life coaching in 2008, I was really looking for a freedom lifestyle. Like I won't lie to you. This is part of the reason why I wanted to do a business is because I've, I've never been a worker bee. I'm not really like, uh, an, any grim three, if anyone knows what that is like, who are like work, work, work. I'm like, that's me. Right. And you know what my clients are and my colleagues cause most of everyone in this space is, but I'm actually an eight. So I'm like, I like a challenge. So in my twenties and thirties, I was like, I need to find myself. I need to know the meaning of life.

Speaker 3: And I need to put myself on the right path. And I focused on finding myself and I, I did it all. Like I really, I went deep on that and which is probably why I'm so high functioning now because I've kind of done life backwards. Most people are like, get into the work world, go, go, go. And then they kind of have this. Who am I? And I'm like, Oh no, I don't want to talk about that. I already know that. And I don't really get caught up in that because I'm like, I did that and now I can actually compartmentalize and work really hard. So it's not that the work wasn't done, I'm not a robot. I just did it. So I wanted this freedom lifestyle to keep exploring myself. I mean, I'm a West coaster. I am into like outdoor kind of sports and the mountains and on the water.

Speaker 3: And I wanted that. So I started that and I thought, well, I really got a lot of value out of having a life coach and in one of my jobs. And I think let's try that. So I went into that and I had knew nothing about business. So I flailed for quite a long time. I did. Okay at first, because of course you get your first Russia clients with your, like your super close network. And then it was just constantly this sort of like struggle of knowing that what I was doing wasn't it was too general, but I didn't know anything about how to get it more focused. And then I, there was a few years into it and I was realizing that. And also then I had my son and he didn't sleep for a few years. So it was in sleep deprivation and there was some personal stuff.

Speaker 3: So this is my long journey. And then I finally, and then I realized that I really wanted to focus on businesses because I love business and I'm very strategic and it was awesome except for, I didn't really have a lot of tools. I didn't have a lot of methods that you, that differentiates a skillset from a business. Okay. So the, my biggest learning was that just because you're good at doing a thing with people doesn't mean you stand for a result or an outcome that you get repeatedly with client after client, which then develops your value proposition in your business and you get known for doing some thing. And then you sell, you have like clear value. You sell to a clear group of people, you know, where to target them, you know, who you're right for it here or not. And they know that as well. And that was, so that was my first, like five years. So that if you have any questions like, and stop and the rest, but that was really the first five years of, of like finally figuring out that I did. I didn't really have a business.

Speaker 2: I think that that's the part that every newbie myself included skips, or we want to skip it, or we think something's wrong with us because it doesn't all fall into place. And we don't realize that all of the actions that we're taking and the things that we're doing is, are filling in the pieces of the puzzle and bringing that clarity together. And because we don't know that we need to do that, we feel like something is wrong or,

Speaker 3: Or waiting for a sign or an invitation to something or a flow of leads somehow. And sometimes we're waiting in reaction mode rather than I'm going to go out and find this and own this and figure this out. And that is where we empower ourselves to then be like, I don't know the answer to this question, but I can be objective about it and realize that I don't have as much clarity as I need. And, but I do know that I need to do that if I want some flow and ease. So that's, that's kind of that part of, of, of being like the challenge of being kind of heart-based, values-based one to be fulfilled. Don't just want to make ton of money. Like there's like, sure. That's okay. But that's not the actual thing. I mean, we'd be doing different things if we just wanted to make kind of money, like we would have done it 20 years ago. So I think it's like, but we still have to also be a bit business-minded and if we're, if we don't come from that background or have that experience, we have to be prepared to learn that and be a little bit more objective, like with it rather than being as emotional about it too. So that's the other challenge we face is that it's all about, Oh, I'm a failure and, Oh, I'm this. It's like, no, you just haven't figured out the niche. So that's the hard part too. Ah, yeah.

Speaker 2: Yes, I can. I can totally relate to that. I know so many people listening to this and in my audience can relate to that because we make it about us when things don't go the way that we think that they should, based on like looking at what everybody else is doing and understanding that that, that is happening. And just being aware of that and being able to separate yourself from that is like a big skill to learn

Speaker 3: Was a big shift. Like things really, really shift when we get more serious about being entrepreneurs and things like, which is kind of like the difference between like a freelancer and an entrepreneur. Is it a freelancers doing the work and getting paid a job is doing the work and getting paid a business owner. Like I do some client work for sure, but I I've had to get, like I spent all my time doing like developing new things and planning things and marketing things and podcasting things and networking. And it's all like, not like that time is not paid and that's like a most of my time so that you kind of have to see that as, see it a little bit differently too, and be like, Oh wow, like I'm investing in all this and it's fun. And it's like, I get to do it my way still. I don't have to do the thing. Like again, you and I are not massive social media people. Right. It's not our thing, but I love networking and we're both doing summits, so right. You know, the things we enjoy and I, so I feel like it's like, we have to still assume that we can be as successful when we're willing to follow the path. And some of it is, is a little bit harder than we thought.

Speaker 2: Uh, yes, it's all. And looking at as looking at it as a test, you know, I'm, I'm, uh, one big experiment and, and being willing to like, let it lead you where it's going to lead you. So you've you have these first five years. Okay. Then what happens

Speaker 3: Then? What happened? So then what happened was I finally got clear that I needed to invest. So this is the first time and I'm not a huge spender. So I'm like, uh, I'm not like, uh, you know, people talk about, Oh, I like maxed out my credit card and I was going for it and I was in debt and I'm like, no, no, no. Like I still don't spend very well, you know, like I'm not from that. I can relate to there. Yeah, exactly. Right. I know. I see your, your, your expense reports and stuff. So I'm like, Oh yeah, this year I'm in it like touching probably for like a thousand dollars a month.

Speaker 3: And it's like to some people like they're wild and I'm not. So, but I finally realized that I needed a mentor. I needed somebody who had systems. I didn't want to create my own systems at that point because almost, and he's just say the thing, I think that it's really hard to create our own systems, unless we actually had a 20 year career in something like I have my own systems now. And they adapted from other people's training that I've had or I paid for, and then I've made it my own and then added it. But I did it in ha it's really hard to create from scratch. And then I always felt like I needed to, but then it always felt like it was kind of just bored from someone else. So in this case I learned business strategy and that was like, Oh, this is my thing.

Speaker 3: Like, that kind of gave me without me. Maybe like say like five years of client experience doing this one thing. I mean, I did have business owners as clients. I still had tools for them that I can move them from a to B. And that was the start of me saying like, this person, this kind of person at this kind of space I do now, this work, and I don't necessarily take on someone who's looking for careers or stuff, or like, I was very getting more clear and I was developing more of a, of a, a productized service or a practice, but I didn't, I didn't productize the service. Like that was, that was the start of me learning to, um, experiment with the offer. So, because I had a practice that I take a bunch of people on like do with different tools, but then it, then I was at, but then it took me a while to say, actually, here's what I do.

Speaker 3: And usually it is these things. And these are the things that are in the foundations that are in place to develop a strong business. That's capable of growth in scale. And that's, so then that became my, my productized service, which when you're, when you a product high service, it's still one-on-one or it doesn't have to be, but it's also still a very clear, defined value proposition. It's like, I help people develop their business model, you know, and it, regardless of whether they're developing it to get their first clients or they're developing it to grow a scalable program, it's still all needs to constantly be clear or working towards clarity. And so that's where that's when I started to feel like really excited, cause I was starting to get repeatable results and I was starting to get really satisfied clients. And everyone felt really good when, when they left working with me.

Speaker 3: And that was also one of my goals is that sometimes when I handheld people for too long, they would start getting into their stuff and not like stalling. And then I was like, Oh, they didn't walk away thinking that was rad. I'm so stoked. And I was like, Hmm, I think so I actually took a like, like a pay cut, so to speak. Like I actually reduced my fees and reduce my service. And I started charging, like, I think I started charging like my business design package at like 1100 or something when it was 3000 for like several months, longer term months, like maybe four months of coaching or something like that. But I did that in order to be like, this is the, the drop-off point for them to go off and implement. And if they don't implement, it's not my fault. So it gave me this, uh, amazing experience of being able to like, wow, they love it while they're happy while they're there flying. And, and that over and over, like that took me about a year for finding slightly, but it was so worth it so worth it because it gave me all the confidence I needed to realize that I really had some valuable service that I felt so confident selling to people.

Speaker 2: Oh my gosh, I love so many things that you, that you said there. And I want to kind of go back to, you know, you, you, um, have the system that you move people through, you know, w wherever are coming, you know, whatever they're coming to you with, you know, how to start them here and move them all the way through that system. But that's different from knowing that system is different than how you talk about the offer. Can you talk a little bit more about the difference between like what you did and the day to day basis and how you actually talked about it to those customers that you were, you know, selling to.

Speaker 3: Right. Okay. So now this is an interesting thing, like one of the turning points that I didn't mention that I'll add, because this is related is that I still actually get a lot of Google traffic, like cold search traffic. And this is one of the things that I was like, you get people who find you on Google. I'm like, yes. And they buy from me. And that is like, goes against so much of what we learn is like warm everyone up. And yes, you know, having that happen to me also kind of made me a little bit, make probably more lazy when it came to like doing all this engagement on social media and all this other stuff, because, or, and I took me a while to launch, launch my podcasts. Like I've only had it for two years and well, two and a half at this point.

Speaker 3: And, um, I think, I think that what happened was I, I learned to speak the language I learned to write to people in a relatable way. And so when people did come across my website, they were like, wow, like you made me feel something. And I connect to what you're saying, and you're relating to where I'm at. And you're talking about where I want to go without dumbing it down completely to sound like super airy fairy. Cause there's some, like, there's some like substance in that that they can see that, Oh, she knows where I'm at. She knows where I want to go. And she's also telling me there's a, not, not the how, but a bit of the, like, you're really good at the Shannon. Like, I love everything on your website. Like, you're always really good at like actually walking people through like the relatable way of describing what they might need.

Speaker 3: And so that was something that literally switched because I used to get Google traffic, especially locally, like today, I just had somebody from New York, which is like a different country and cross country who found me because she searched business strategist or something like that. And, and mine obviously popped up too. And she related to the messaging because had she found me and not liked anything that she read and thought it was just like irrelevant or uninteresting or unprofessional or whatever that is like people who are in positions who hire me are want somebody who's professional. She wouldn't have booked that call. And that to me is really critical. So my favorite thing in the world is to help people relate their, their message, their offer in the best way possible. So they gain every single sale that they're meant to have. And that was such a, such a turning point for me, that I went from getting like no console to like a lot of consults from this, the same level of traffic to my website based on my messaging changing and becoming relatable.

Speaker 3: So those are the two things, but I also still feel like I am slightly giving people, like, I like to use the words of business model and value proposition, because I think it attracts the kind of people who know they need to do the work and it's not going to be easy. Like, they're really like, yup. Everything you're saying, I know I need, I'm totally aware. And, and yet they still can't do it on their own. Like I, you know, I was talking to my consult today and I said, actually, I need to hire somebody like me right now because I have a lot going on in my business and a lot of decisions to make and I've got, and I actually need to help someone help them, help me design my, my next phase of my business. And so I know that it just because I, the skillset and I've let them know what they need like that they need to figure at least foundations like how to sell the thing, how to bring in the attention, how to convert it, what to then to do with them, how much to charge, you know, all that stuff.

Speaker 3: Like I know that just because I, they know that's what they need to do. That doesn't mean they can do it on their own without having someone validating their decision-making. So that's the kind of the, the personal part of what I do.

Speaker 2: Uh, I just, I, I totally understand what you mean by, you know, yes. You'd know exactly what to do, but you can't do it on your own. That was one of the hardest lessons that I have had to learn. And I still am learning it still to, to be aware of the fact that like, just because you can do this and you help other people do it does not mean that you are the best person to do it for yourself because all of my own stuff comes up and all of my own, you know, limiting beliefs or mindset blocks or whatever you want to call them, come up where I cut myself off from really great ideas or opportunities or things, because I can't like I'm in my own way. And so I just, I love that you said that, that you're like, I need someone like me to help me, you know, move this business to the next level. That's, that's where I'm at right now, too. It's like, I can execute the strategy and the technical stuff, but there's so many things to be thought through that it gives the, just need that mentor. Yeah.

Speaker 3: It's decision-making and decision-making is what creates efficiency. So think about every time we don't make a decision on something, or we put it off, like, how much are we actually just not moving something forward or stalling, a process that if we were able to then get it out and, and like get validation. And this is the other thing too, is that there is also something about validation that isn't even just about mindset. It's about somebody to say, Ooh, I like that. So when someone says, Ooh, I like that. You're doing that. Like, when I recently launched kind of this, like, Hey, everyone, I'm getting more into helping membership businesses because I'm really starting to get excited about this model. So the first thing I did was write a blog and I was like, how do I start? Like, how do I kind of get focused on this area without like changing my entire website?

Speaker 3: Because I didn't want to just all of a sudden, like rebrand or anything, it was like, I still work with all kinds of business models for service based businesses, but I wanted to just play with this. So I wrote a blog post and I post it in a couple of groups. And then people like commented like crazy and said, this is really interesting. And I love the way you've talked about it. I've been thinking about this and here's, you know, you've alleviated my concerns. And then I got a client out of it. And I was like, okay, validation. Right? So it's not, it's not to say that we don't believe in our own good ideas that sometimes we need the one extra person to say, I love that. Or I don't really understand what you're

Speaker 4: Talking about. And either one of those is good for you.

Speaker 2: Exactly. Exactly. This is, I love everything that you just said. One thing that you said, which I find my, uh, my community and audience wanting to do is start over. They, they are like this thing that I was doing, isn't working the way that I wanted. I want to completely redesign my website, completely redo everything. And I love what you just said where you're like, how do I start on this idea without changing my whole business model? How can I quickly validate this and writing a blog post and, you know, putting those ideas out there or whatever, you know, wherever you're communicating with your people, um, you know, to just put your toe in the water and test, test that reaction is such a better use of our time than going back and redoing everything.

Speaker 4: And there's the gut too, right? Like there's also this gut. Like we know when things are the right things, but we don't always trust her gut. And sometimes until someone else, because just things that we can trust our gut on me, cause they're like more mainstream trends or things. But when you're navigating a smaller decision space, like, like I can't run my non-business owner friends by an idea they can't validate. So there's certain people that need to validate that, that I need to hear from, and not like your partner or somebody like, or your child

Speaker 2: Sounds great. Sometimes your business coach, you know, they can direct you, but it has to be the people who need the thing that you want that are really going to be the ones that are going to give you that feedback. And just like you said, the, I don't understand this. I don't understand how it's for me. I don't understand how it would benefit me is extremely valuable feedback. It's not the feedback that should make you think I need to just go back in my cave and hide out because my ideas are terrible. That's the feedback. You need to be able to refine how you're saying it. And it just really, this is

Speaker 4: It's like, you're like, Oh, I wanted this to be the thing. Cause I know one thing I, you know, we were talking about earlier was that, you know, one of my biggest struggles was niching. Like it was really big for me and it's, and I loved, I talk about it, all my podcasts all the time. Like, you know how I've struggled with my niche, everyone. Like, I feel very honest about it because it's just what I struggled with because I didn't have one. I didn't have like, okay, so here's the thing. I didn't come from a tangible service. I was like, I'm going to be a coach. So I love the way you came from web design. It was like, that's tangible. You could sell that easily. People need the thing that they can't do themselves. They get it something at the end that they can see.

Speaker 4: So I really, really did not do that. And I resisted doing that. And I, and that, so nor did I have a mission to support certain kind of person on a certain problem that Saint, maybe I overcame in my life and which now maybe I do a little bit more on the messaging. And like business design is definitely one of the problems I've solved in my life, but it didn't for the longest time. So I, it was really challenging to then go out and have that and create that nation and it, and it was so it's like, there's some level of acceptance. Like I just can't quite do it because if I do, it'll be like in authentic and I can't just say, Oh, I'm going to serve this group of people. And like, why do I have a seven care about this one group of people?

Speaker 4: It just, I'm not like I'm so truth-based, I couldn't pretend. So there's like a little bit of patience, but then there's a little bit of like, how do I then become relevant? And I mean, two years ago I learned Facebook ads and I started offering as a service. And I don't think it's something in 2021 that I will be doing a ton of, but it really served me to understand the marketing funnel world really, really well. And that asset of like me being a marketer really helped me gel my whole brand and, and, and gave me, positioned me as more sophisticated in my knowledge to some people who are like, yes, I need a coach, potentially are strategists, but they also want to know that I get marketing because they know this online marketing thing is it's a big world. So I think that's part of it is like, how do you niche? Well, you know, yeah. Their remission or a cause, or you have a specific skillset or you have a tangible skill and it's, we can get a tangible skill at any time. I got one in 20, I think it was 2018. And that was after being in business for years. I finally got one and then I, and then I still do it, but I have like really one and a half clients that I do it for right now. So it wasn't like a massive thing, but it's still

Speaker 2: Feed me and

Speaker 4: A whole bunch of things. And I learned a new skillset, but I don't, but it, so it didn't have to be this whole lane. I wasn't picking that as a lane, I was dabbling in that lane, it served a purpose. I got recurring revenue. I learned so much, I got to use my copywriting skills and all these things, but I, and I didn't have to move my business whole business in that direction. So I feel like there's this there's experimentation that is really useful. And it's not just about an idea or a message. It can be with a skill that you can then sell and make money from and then learn as you go.

Speaker 2: Absolutely. And I, I feel like so many people think niche is only people and it is not only a group of people. And I think that's why it's so hard for, for people to zero in, on, on who that is. I think of it as like, it's a problem that you solve. Um, not necessarily, it doesn't matter. Like I don't care if I'm solving this problem for a 75 year old man who I have those people in my audience, in my audience or a 30 year old woman like that, like that is people, like, if you're thinking traditional niece, you're going to be like her audiences all over the place. It's like, no, they all have this one specific problem that I solve and they have a driving desire to solve it, which is why they relate. They relate to me. And I think that that's something that, um, if, if people can just kind of like shift how they think about niche, it won't stymie them so much. So I want to talk about, you know, you are kind of transitioning into this or towards experimenting with a new niche. So can you tell me a little bit more about like how this even came to be an idea for you to write this blog post about, um, you know, the, the membership model and a membership program and why that excites you so much?

Speaker 4: Yeah. So I, I think I've just been, Oh, uh, spending, like, as I always do all year, figuring out like, Ooh, you know, where's my focus because I, for me, it's always been this idea of like consistency, like I UK. So my big goal is, and I know we're an online business owners, so we're almost always in startup mode, but my goal is to get out of, and I feel like just reading your newsletters, it's like, you're like, yup. Like consistency, like you report your earnings. Cause you're like working on the consistency thing. And that's like the, I don't really care if it's like $5,000 a month consistent or 50 consistency is consistency. And it's really, really valuable because that's the time where we can put our little amygdala brain in the back and let her life move on with her life. When we're worried about not making money, then six months from now or two months from now, we don't predict it.

Speaker 4: We don't feel safe. So that has always been like my burning goal is like, I don't care about fluctuations. I want to see consistency. So I've always felt like I need to find these natural flows. Uh, so, and, and that has been like my last two years of focus, like I'm really focused on my business right now, more than I ever have been on anything like any career thing in my life. And I'd like to, in a couple years be working on something totally different. I'm a challenger, I'm an eight, I need challenges. So I'll get there. But for now it's been to kind of, to fix that issue. And so I did in some ways, by taking on recurring revenue clients and working at them at kind of high levels, but still, it was really, um, it was helpful in times of uncertainty. And I always know that you've got to have a more narrow niche in order to get referrals consistently and get known and get trusted and, and not be like, yeah, I could work with you because I came across you and your right, the right person.

Speaker 4: But you are the go-to person for, I mean, not in the world, but like your name can get passed around by a number of different people who they're like, I, it's easy to say who, it's easy to say, you need to go talk to Lisa. It that's what, that's all. I'm like, that's really, when things get consistent, it's like, it's really obvious, Oh, go talk to Shannon. And it's really obvious for me to say, Hey, you know what? I could help you with this, but I really think you need to go talk to Shannon and buy this course from her. Like, I want a world of, I got all these business owner, client or friends, and we're all happy to share. Not because we're like, Oh, but collaborations, better competition. But we actually are differentiated enough that we, it really truly, truly works. And that to me has always been my goal.

Speaker 4: So membership came across me. It was my, actually my friends because I have a business bestie and we Voxer like all day long every day. It's pretty funny, but we're at a similar level, very different businesses at similar level. And it's very valuable. So that's probably who I'm getting most of my co guidance from, but she's very strategic thinking. So it works. I'm lucky. Right. I'm lucky because it's hard to find that person. And she was like, why don't you become a launch strategist? And as like, sometimes she pushes me too hard. She keeps bugging me. And I'm like, no, because no, because then she's still pushing me. And I'm like, that's enough. But she pushes me sometimes to get somewhere else. And I was like, I don't want to launch. I'm not technical. I don't want it. She's like, you could hire a team.

Speaker 4: I'm like, I don't wanna hire a team to do technical things. Like I just don't, I don't, I don't. But somehow in that conversation, it occurred to me that I like something about membership businesses. And then I looked at my realized that half, like, no, I said like most of my clients actually had those models and I was doing ads for some of them. And I was doing more marketing for others. And I was just supporting others through like strategy work. And I was like, wow. Like I actually have a niche that I didn't really know. And I have so much business model experience that I'm really comfortable kind of owning that and saying, you know what, I'm going to be the membership queen. And then, and then, which is kind of funny, cause I don't need to be a queen, but I was, and then I looked around a little bit too. And I'm like, there's actually not that many people in this space. And there's a lot of people talking about membership sites and there are a lot of people selling like $49 things per month. And I'm like, Whoa, like there's so much flexibility here. There's so much ability to offer like high level coaching programs this way.

Speaker 5: And to just offer like offer coaching and, and no

Speaker 4: Nothing else in that model instead of, you know, just you have to get like a monthly download or something or you have to facilitate community. And I was like, I'm going to like kind of push this a little bit. Like I'm going to kind of try to change people's thinking around it. And then I got validation really quickly that people were like, yes. And I got like two clients right away. And I was like, Oh, I'm going to form a, an, uh, a partnership with a course platform that has the ability to host memberships. And like, they live really close to me. I'm going to make friends with them. And I just had all these ideas. And, and so it really occurred to me. It felt natural. So it really like when I told you that story earlier of like, I've tried this before, when it wasn't, I was like, I could put all of my like, love behind this and be an advocate for a model to serve your people in the way that's most natural for you and the most natural for them, because this is more flexibility so that if you don't have like a law, uh, an audience to launch to, but you have people to individually put into a program and ongoing kind of monthly membership who still want access to you at a lower price 0.1 by one, there you go.

Speaker 4: You've got a membership model. And if you have a whole bunch of people who you want to serve, who is an audience that gets ignored because they can't pay for a lot of things, you have a membership model. Like you have all the flexibility to do it the way that you want to do it. You can. And I realized that it is actually the only business models that really work are the ones that suit our, what we want to give and what people need to receive. And if that model gives us the full range of opportunity to make that happen. So I just was like, bam, I'm totally going to do this. And, and that was the first time that it hit me, that I already had some knowledge and the world needs another, a new voice, a new heart-based voice in this world of saying you're ultimately here to deliver value and not make sales. And it's really great

Speaker 2: Huck. Uh, can we talk more about just how your approach to the membership model is different than what we're currently hearing in the space, um, from, from the, from the people who are promoting the membership model?

Speaker 4: Okay. So the, the key difference, I think is that it's, there's no such thing as passive income, and I'll never pretend that there is, or even aspire for it. We're really lucky to have work that we love doing, and that pays us well. And that still means we're going to have to show up and do it. And we might, we might as well love it, but there's no such thing as like, if you, if you don't keep fueling something, it will eventually disappear. So that that's kind of a myth. So the people who are kind of, I think jumping into this space, especially even people who wanted start these and don't have any business background are trying to are, are still following this sort of myth of like I earn every month, don't do anything. Cause it's like you do stuff. And I also think it's more service oriented.

Speaker 4: I, I want to look at it as what if your client, uh, joins a group program and they can't show up for three months. I mean, people, those kids are at home right now. Like there's a lot of things that are, aren't allowing people to learn at their own time and their own own pace. And if can't, if they paid thousands of dollars for a program for, so that's a huge risk upfront, they all have to be focused on like this, getting this one outcome. And they all have to show up at the same time. So why not offer a slightly lower, like, it does still be a high price point, but a lower price point. So people can access what they need when they need it and at their own pace. And then not just be like your cutoff. Thanks for joining the program.

Speaker 4: If you want to hire me for a lot of money for one-on-one sure you can, like, you're actually giving, you're like committing to them. You're saying like, I'm going to be here for the long run to serve you. And I linked, that's really valuable because I think people are realizing that they just don't learn everything through a course. They don't learn everything through a program. They don't learn everything in a group of thousands of people. You need validation, you need connection. You need a small tribe of people who are like, you know them, they know you. And that's what I think this can offer. So this is what I'm trying to say. And trying to say that it's not about making money. It's about delivering a higher level of value and there's ways to do it. That won't sell you short. Like if you're offering high level coaching, you don't have to offer a $49 a month program. It can be a $400 a month monthly program, just give people what they need.

Speaker 2: I love how so, what, everything that I hear about why I, as an entrepreneur should start a membership model is consistent recurring revenue. That's the, that's just the message that I hear. Right. And I'm just like, that does not resonate with me. Even though I love consistent recurring revenue because it's not that simple. Like there is a lot there's, you know, there you'll have a lot of churn with your membership. If you don't serve these people in a way, like what you're describing and making it a value, valuable community beyond just you, because the community as a whole being a part of that is, you know, a huge part of the value of just access to all those other people, not just you, you know, so there's so many things beyond that, that I think people kind of like fall into the trap of like, Oh, I'll just get people to sign up.

Speaker 2: And then I'll just have someone paying me X a month for months and months and months. And I don't have to do anything, but create the content and like create one new thing a month. And it's just like, that's, who's going to quit after three months. And you'll always have to get new people and new people in. So now you're spending your time constantly launching and selling rather than serving the people who are there to stay. And I love how you just described the value of the membership model, you know, for, for both both sides. So

Speaker 4: I think there's, I like to say there's models, there's the education model, which means people are paying for the information that you give them every month. And that really can be the prime benefit. And if that is like information, they can't live without you. Don't like, that's the prime benefit. And so I think it's okay to not be like, well, the community's the thing because not everyone. Yeah. That's the thing. And it, and it can be, but it doesn't have to be. I think we used to think it was all about community. And I'm saying actually like, I want to launch it. Like I'm watching a marketing kind of coaching membership. And the prime benefit will be some of the like planning and like working on this, working on this, working on this for people who need the guidance, but it's also going to be mostly like coaching access.

Speaker 4: Like you need to get on a call, let's do a call. I'm in a, I'm in a membership right now. That's like, it's kind of a, one-year no, it's a join any time pay, uh, pay for a year. So that's the other thing you can have minimum times if you just happen to want minimum times, like that makes sense. You can have a year, you can have three months, you can have six months. Like it's totally up to you. If it makes more sense for this to serve the community and you can make it a higher barrier to entry so that you don't have the people coming and going so much, if you have a small group and you want that community to actually be like a little bit more trusting, but you also can just focus on what the key goal is. Like. I, if I'm focused on giving time, my time, and if I love showing up on a zoom call and troubleshooting and working through things and getting to know my people, cause I love relationships, then I don't necessarily go.

Speaker 4: And I put a prompt in there every couple of days to say like, what did you do this week? Or telling me something personal. I mean, I'm not saying that that doesn't work, but it's like, that's not where I like I'm drawn and I'm also not drawn to answering those. So it's like, I'll do it my way. You know? Like, so I, I guess it's like you have, you still can do it your way. There is not like a blueprint for it. And you have to be like any business, you have to find those like nuances that make it unique, you yours and make it work and, and truly giving people what they want, not what someone else did and that's the evolution. So I think that has potential. There's a lot of potential in this model to be a little more client centric and also serve you as a business owner. So again, when you, when you're willing to dispel the myth about what that could look like, you've actually got a viable model that would be fun to deliver.

Speaker 2: So I love, I love all of that. I mean, I was thinking that like, yeah, I'm a, I'm a member of a membership who has a huge thriving community, but I'm not really like a engaged in the community kind of person. And I love here's, here's something I wanted to talk to you about. Cause we both kind of have the same, well the same social media presence, I don't know, or lack thereof

Speaker 4: Three times a week. Talk to me

Speaker 2: A little bit about, you know, how you do use social media. Um, because I, you know, I have a lot of my, my students asking me like, okay, well, how do I build an audience audience on Instagram? I'm like, I don't know. That's not what I use instruments. So I don't particularly love being on social media. It's just not like a, a way that I like get people to my what, like, it's not how I get visibility. I just wonder like what your whole position on social media is. Well,

Speaker 4: You really want my opinion. I'm happy to give you my opinion. So my opinion is that like I had this kind of idea that wouldn't it be fun just to go off it completely and still run my business. And, and then there's also the other opinion is wouldn't it be great if I just hired somebody to do it all for me, but I don't really do much. So at this point I don't do much and I'm sticking by that because it just doesn't, but I don't dislike it. Like I'll go on it once in a while. And there's people I know. So because I have put a little bit of time into it, but like I'm not, I was never brought up to me, Ms. Share a lot. Like, I don't really take videos and I don't watch other people's like stories. So I was a kind of on Instagram until stories can I came out and then I was like, Oh, I'm not doing this.

Speaker 4: Like, I'm just not doing this. And I don't watch other people's stories. Like I just, it's not. So I really think that you've got to know what you're willing to marketing has to suit your personality. We've got a thousand things we can do for marketing and something's actually real relationships work the best. And I know that I'm inclined to do that. So I feel like if you want to show up on a channel just to have a presence, I mean, I'm in marketing. I kind of have to have a presence. So I've got like something on Instagram and it posts automatically to my watch on my Facebook and I have a podcast. So I put it out there and then I show up in LinkedIn once a week with a nice graphic. And that's all I have. Cause it was like my minimum minimum, and I don't get clients from it and I don't really do anything, but check out a new consult client from it or something.

Speaker 4: And I that's it. And I don't want to put more time into that because then I wouldn't be doing this. So I've picked and chosen my focus and my focus is like, I will network. I will be on podcasts. I will have my own podcasts. I'm launching a summit because I it's like I want, and I love conferences. And I decided like a discovery conferences two years ago. And this year was going to be, be the year of like conference. Like I was going to go to four or fine, like it's not the year of conferences, but I was going to go every quarter, like go to a rad conference, like, uh, you know, good like decent price point, decent amount of small amount, kind of curated people meet people, socialize, like get out there, learn a little bit and it didn't happen. So I am now on more calls with people and that is like lights me up.

Speaker 4: I'm an extrovert. And I spent a lot of time alone. So people, the people is sort of what works for me. And I think, I think you have to, like, there's a trade-off, there's no stay up all night and hope it works. Like it's either starting to work for you perhaps, because your topic is like super fascinating or you got some traction somehow and it's starting to like engage you, but I'm in the B2B space. Like every single other person on Instagram, like I'm not going to get known for that unique mission or have a picture to take of my beautiful product every day. It's going to take a lot of energy for me to really grow that way. So, so perhaps if I don't love it, I shouldn't do it.

Speaker 2: I feel the exact same way as all of that. The thought of doing stories and things like that. And just like, I am just not a natural, like, I'm just, I'm not a natural share like that, but if you give me a keyboard and a Google doc, I will dear diary all day. But like, I can't like not on, not on an Instagram story or not like constrained by that format. I specifically use social media. I'm like, let's go back to like, it was 2008 or I don't even know when it came out where we're actually using it to connect with real people. And that's, that's how I use it. Like the sole purpose of my Instagram is to elevate my podcast guests and, you know, put them out there and promote what we've done together. I, I use social media exclusively for relationship building and amplifying like my, you know, my people and whether, you know, I don't, I don't get trapped. Like I do get some, you know, email signups and stuff from it, but it's not my, my sole purpose. And so,

Speaker 4: And if you did, you would be giving up something else that you're doing. And that's the thing it's like, there is only so much, right. And if we're not a million dollar business, okay. Maybe a little bit less than that. I mean, something at that level, then you don't really need to just then expand to the next channel to go for the extra level of volume in your volume business, because they've not playing a volume game, then it's not, doesn't it doesn't, it's not worth the time because then the cost ends up being kind of crazy because then you need to hire support. So it's like really is about like, I love simple marketing funnels. I'm just all about like, what is the, like the simplest route, not even the fastest or the quickest, but the simplest route to, to getting like connected to somebody or your client or whatever and, and, and use your super power.

Speaker 4: Like I'm willing to ask anybody to like, I have no problems asking people to like, be on my podcast or reaching out and say, Hey, can you can, you know, this person, can you connect me to them? Like, I don't care anymore. I'm getting to that age. It's like, whatever. They're just, everyone's just a person. And I don't do the work thing. And I don't really like to hang out with people who are do that thing where they all like super fans, you know, like, Oh, you're so awesome. It's like, you're not going to read you or know who you are. Like, I just don't like that. And I'd never grow that kind of following. There's a lot of people who do really well and still never grow that gushy following. Right.

Speaker 2: And so I think I would just,

Speaker 4: I need to do, we need to do things that work really well for us. And if you're not a natural promoter, meaning like, Oh, like I love sharing. Some people really are good at that. So genuine. It's like, go and do that if that's your asset, but you need to use your assets and your strengths.

Speaker 2: I love that. You said, if you don't love it, don't do it. I'm all about that because you're not going to do it. You're, you're going to find a thousand reasons to not, and then you're just slowing yourself down. So, and then I'm also like, I am not like fighting with algorithms all day. Like, no, I work for the people, not for the algorithm. Well, and that, yeah. And it's,

Speaker 4: It's super detailed kind of tiny stuff. And I, and I'm like, it's just,

Speaker 2: It's different skillsets, different generations, different, whatever.

Speaker 4: I mean, I'm a little bit technologically behind sometimes. Like I'm not the first to adopt things. You know? Like I, I really get things, but I don't necessarily want to get bogged down in all the tools and tech. I don't enjoy it. So therefore I'm like, like learning that stuff. It's like, uh, thankfully I've been around long enough that, and everything's so easy now. I mean, eight years ago, everything was like impossible. Like you could not connect certain things. It was like, how do I get paid for that?

Speaker 2: Right. Everything was like impossible.

Speaker 4: And nothing talked now it's like click, Oh, that's connected to every single, you could have the newest email platform. And you know, that it's connected to every other app that you use. Like it's easy now. And, and so getting caught up in all those little tiny details, if you don't love it, don't do it because it's probably not going to work. And that's the thing. Right? You have to love it. You're not going to show up.

Speaker 2: That's the quotable. That's going out with this with this episode. Awesome. Awesome. So I love what we talked about today, which is really just to kind of like recap it, you know, figuring out part of this journey is figuring out what that system is that you've put people through to get the results, and then learning how to talk about it in a way that resonates with people and then adapting then taking that. And you can adapt that to whatever model you want, membership, whatever, whatever that is, and really design a business that works super well for you and for your clients without having to like cookie cutter yourself into anybody else's mold and then promote yourself, however, the heck you want, because you get to do what you love. And it's that like in a nutshell, it's like the secret to

Speaker 4: Life and happiness. I mean, there's a lot in there. There's a lot of customization in there and personalization and that's the tricky part. And that's why we need to work with others. We can see ourselves because we don't always see our, so one of the things I didn't mention that I wanted to say, one of the things I do the most for people is give them, I dunno, I don't even give them permission. I'm like, you don't have to do all these things because it's not that we don't have a good sense of all the things we need to do. We just think we need to do other things. And then those other things get in the way of the things we need to do. So a lot of what I do is like, you can ignore these 10 things and just do these two, and that's where they start to get traction.

Speaker 4: So when I talk about the simplest way, the simplest way is the way that it's kind of working and it's to, if you get caught up in that, you'll move like little tiny rocks up the Hill and you will not get significant to anyone. Like you won't be significant because you need to be seen just to be noticed and needed to be heard in order to have like an impact. And if you're not really doing enough of anything consistently, it's, it's not, it's not going to get out there. And so that's why it has to be narrow. It has to be focused. It has to be less, that's the only thing that actually works. And like the big people we know, like the big multi-million dollar businesses who are online, have one offer a lot of them. Yeah. So it's just recognizing that it really is as simple for you has to be simple for you if it's simple for them.

Speaker 2: Oh, that's so good. So I have just two more questions for you before we wrap up. The first is one that I ask everyone that comes on the podcast, and that is what belief about yourself. Did you have to change to get to where you are today?

Speaker 4: Well, that's a good one. Okay. My belief was, I think I thought that I had to be special or have something unique or be kind of a rock star that to get, to get to where I wanted to go. And I, and or there was some kind of thing that someone else had that I didn't have. I had to get over my own self. I had to opt in. So one of the things I was I did was wait to be invited and it's like, you're never going to get invited girl. You got to opt in and invite other people. So I feel like there's this weird, uh, isolation thing, like that was the result of isolation was kind of not understanding that I actually had to like show up and, and like offer and deliver. And, uh, it wasn't like a special thing that I had didn't have. It was like, I'm just as qualified as anyone else. And I think I knew that at the core, but I didn't know that it didn't require a, anything, like the way out of that was just like showing up in my way instead of other people's ways. Cause that way wasn't working like that social media. Right. So the showing up like, okay, so it started with launching the podcast. It's like, okay, everyone, I'm here, I'm doing it. I'm speaking my truth. And that was like really

Speaker 2: Turning point for me. Uh, so good. I could talk to you for ever. And I know we're going to definitely be talking more, but where can everyone find out more about you, um, this upcoming summit, you know, the membership, um, you know, niche, if you will, or track or yeah. All of the things that you're doing, where can we get? So with you,

Speaker 4: A couple easy ways is that I'm at scaling deep.com. And I have a podcast, the scaling deep podcast, where I talk about all the kinds of things that we talked about today. And I just get into these sort of narrow, narrow focuses on some of them. So check that podcast out. And then the summit is all on memberships and all the different models, how to like plan, how to launch and how to grow a membership in 2021. And that is, uh, scaling deep.com forward slash summit. And it's, uh, probably kicking off pretty soon. So yeah, check that out and join us.

Speaker 2: Awesome. Well, I will link up all of that stuff in the show notes. Everyone definitely go check that out. I know so many of you in my audience have asked me about how to run a membership. I can tell you how to put the tech together, but you have to have some substance behind that. So definitely go check that out. Scaling deep.com forward slash summit. Lisa, thank you so much for coming on the show. This will definitely be like the first of many things that we we do together.

Speaker 4: Absolutely. Thanks for having me Shannon. It was a lot of fun.