Ep. 341: Playing the Marketing Long Game with Katelyn Hamilton


Katelyn began her career in marketing and public relations in Nashville, Tennessee. After working in the agency world for six years, she decided to pursue the entrepreneurship route to create more freedom and flexibility in her life. Now, Katelyn works as an Online Business Manager where she helps entrepreneurs organize, strategize and prioritize the backend of their business to go from overwhelmed to out-in-front. A Georgia grad, she bleeds red and black and is a diehard Georgia football fan, dog mom and outdoor enthusiast.

Speaker 2: Welcome to episode a 337 of pep talks for side hustlers. And I am so excited to introduce you to today's guest, to Sala, who is a business growth strategist and head of the virtuous new company. She helps online entrepreneurs, design, delightful customer journeys that leverage their secret sauce and turns one-time customers into repeat buyers, which I absolutely love does Sola. Thank you so much for being here. Can you share a little bit more with our listeners about you and what you do?

Speaker 4: Yes. Thank you so much for having me here. Shannon. I, um, as you said, I designed customer journey, delightful customer journeys for online creators and coaches. Um, and I basically turned selling into a delightful experience for both the seller and the buyer. So my goal is to always, um, have the seller leave with clarity and confidence in their product and in how they stand out in the industry and to have a process that has their clients, literally doing a happy dance all the way to the checkout page, asking them to open the cart early, asking when they could get started and all of these things versus having a bunch of people who quote like their content, but don't like it enough to invest in, um, working with them. For me, a raving fan is someone who is invested in spending not just more time, but more income to work with you. And so my goal is to get you in touch with your raving fans and have you all worked together for as long as possible.

Speaker 2: Okay. So I just love everything that you said, because that is why we're all in business, right? That's what we want. I hear so many people, like they hate selling, they hate marketing it's it feels so gross to them. And they wish that people would just find them and buy from them. And they wouldn't have to do any of that stuff that they don't like. And what you are doing is like turning all of that completely around and making it, like making the, the business owner feel incredible about how they're presenting their offer to people. Yes. Which is going to make them want to present more offers to people like people like my experiences with, um, with my audiences that they don't want to Mark it because they're not doing it the way you teach people.

Speaker 4: Yes, absolutely. And this is what I tell my clients all the time, you deserve a sales funnel. You enjoy that's the whole point, right? You created this product that, you know, can serve someone that you know, can solve a problem, but you won't tell anybody about it because you feel like you're bothering them. You feel inauthentic because somebody told you that this is the only way that you can sell. And it doesn't feel like you, but you try it on anyway. So I'm a God girl. So this is the only way it makes sense to me. It's like, there's a story in the Bible. Y'all don't head for the Hills, but there is a story in the Bible where, um, David, you guys know the David and Goliath story, even if you've never read the Bible in your life, it's this itty bitty guy, big, old, giant something about stones.

Speaker 4: And they throw the stone and the giant fell. That's like the cliff notes on the story. But in the Bible before he goes and launches at the giant, people are trying to help him out. So King Saul is trying to help him out and he says, Hey, I don't want you to go over there and get smushed. So let me give you this armor. That'll protect you for at least five minutes before the giant breaks you in half. And so he puts the armor on and he's like, this doesn't fit me. It doesn't suit me. It's like clunky. It's kind of heavy. And it's just not, it's not hits essentially, but what's happening is bringing it out of the Bible again. Thank you all for staying with me, but bring it out of the Bible. It's like, we're all walking around with these armors, with these funnels that someone has built for us or someone that we've bought a course.

Speaker 4: And they're like, do my step, because these are the steps to a five figure launch. These are the steps to hit your first hundred K and all of these things. And they're clunky and they don't feel good. And yes, sure. You're getting some clients, but it's really hit or miss as to whether or not you like them. I mean like thank you for making your payment in full, but like every time your name pops in my inbox, I'm like, Oh God, like, literally, if you just watch the video, I don't have to answer your question. Right. It's people like that, that we're getting. And so what I'm saying is, yes, your product can solve a problem, but you shouldn't dread having to tell people about it, right? It shouldn't, you shouldn't have to succumb or adapt yourself to a clunky sales funnel. That feels nothing.

Speaker 4: Like you doesn't have your personality and has lackluster results. Like who wants to aim for a 3% conversion? That means like, I don't know what kind of business you're doing, but if you're coming, I know I'm talking to my people, I'm talking to side hustlers. If you're coming from corporate, you're in a board room or you're in front of your employer or manager. And you're like, I talked to a hundred people and three of them said, yes, I am so excited. Like where do they do that? Where, where is that acceptable? And so my point is, Hey, you deserve a sales funnel. You enjoy not just because you deserve that as a business owner, but if you don't enjoy your sales funnel, what do you think your leads are feeling? If, if you don't like, and you're forcing me to go through it, how do you think?

Speaker 4: I feel even before I purchase your product. And so you deserve to create a journey that you, where you know exactly where to put people based on, based on how they describe their problems. And you're so excited to share it because it puts you at that level of expertise. It shows you as the authority and don't go that, like, you're just excited to hang out with them and get know them even before they pay you. And when you, when you finally invite them to work together on a deeper level, they're already ahead of you saying, Hey, take my money. How, how is it, how can I give you money so that I can keep spending more time with you? And how, how can I keep learning from you? And it's literally my joy to do all of my clients come back. And they're just like, I implemented this one thing we talked about and a three X, my conversion.

Speaker 4: So I implemented this thing. I just have a conversation with a client the other day. And she said, I changed this one thing in my messaging. And now I make $500 a day, four X, my ad spend four times my ad spend. And so she's now able to move from one-to-one, which is something she's been wanting to do for at least almost a year. She's able to move from just having one-to-one to confidently, depending on digital sales, as the moves that she's been trying to do in her business and, and in a way that she enjoys in a way that feels great for her. So like I said, it's my joy to do it. I love, I literally love doing it.

Speaker 2: Oh, that's incredible. That's like the dream pipe, right? So I want to talk more about how you do that. But first I want to dive into your backstory, like brought you to today, um, that you're running this business, helping people create these delightful customer journeys

Speaker 4: Because I was a victim of a not so great customer journey. That's literally, this was boring. I was talk about that syringe journey. Um, so, uh, to be honest, I dreaded, I hate to say it, but dreaded entering the online business industry. Because when I first decided I was going to go into entrepreneurship, I had a job that I love. I still have the job that I love. Um, and I just, I just felt like, again, I'm a God girl y'all stay with me. I love y'all. Um, but I felt like it was like a calling for me. And I was like, fine. I'm, I've ignored this calling for a year and a half, almost two years. I'll just like, I'll, I'll dip a toe into it. And dip a toe for me was like, I post, I made one Instagram post. I'll never forget that it's still the first post on my account right now.

Speaker 4: I made one Instagram post and I was like, hi everybody. I am a productivity and time management. Oh, I didn't even say I was a coach. I said, I have created a platform for us to talk about that. I just want you guys to know that I'm here. Okay, bye. And then disappeared for like the weekend and check anything like that was me saying, you know what, God fine. You know, whatever entrepreneurship, yada, yada, and so disappeared for the weekend disappear for the weekend. I was like, I'm not even checking this Instagram thing. I don't want to do this at all. And somehow, like I started my business with traditional business owners. And when I say traditional business, I mean like your mom and pops, I was going to local chamber of commerce meetings. I was like, my first clients were people that I physically went to meet.

Speaker 4: I talked to you and I closed and everything like that. And then all of a sudden, I think, I think I stumbled on an ad or I think Instagram told me to follow somebody, or I think I was listening to a podcast. And then another podcast episode was suggested and I fell into the online business and just really was intrigued by the whole, like, you can create a course and you can sell it. And like all of these things and read sales page after sales page, about how I could get a thousand followers and 10 minutes and how I could reach my first six figures and 30 days. And all of these magnanimous promises that people make and, and the way that they infuse the emotion and what you're feeling and things like that. So they're definitely talking to the right person, but these promises that they were making all these testimonials that they had. And I bought courses, I invested in programs. I bought courses. I think I invested almost $10,000 my first year, um, in online learning and what I was finding out more often than not honestly from, uh, in more of like a 90 10, if not like 95 to 5%

Speaker 3: Return was what'll

Speaker 4: Happen is they'll say at the thank you page, they say, thank you so much for paying me money. Congratulations, head over to your email. And I'll get one email with a login

Speaker 3: And a password. Where do I go to for questions? What do I do? If it doesn't work? What do I do

Speaker 4: Now that I've paid you money out of my employee income to learn something that I already don't feel good about now that the imposter syndrome is creeping back in, where are you to lift me up? Where are you to help me when I'm

Speaker 3: And across the board? What I was hearing

Speaker 4: From other people was, that's not how we do that here. That's not, this is not what we do. Yes. That is that. I mean, literally this was your investment. You invested in the course, and these are the set it and repeated courses where it's like, I did all the work on the front end. Here's all the information. If you don't know how to apply the information, it's your fault. It's a mindset issue. You need to go fix that in yourself. And then when you're ready to do it, you can come back and learn from me with my course, because I have no time for you. I'm over here living

Speaker 3: My laptop life. And I was, uh, Paul, you know why? Because you go to Starbucks,

Speaker 4: You asked them for a latte. They give you a frappuccino. You raised Holy hell. Yeah.

Speaker 3: The Starbucks Starbucks costs, what five bucks

Speaker 4: Investing thousands of dollars. And there is nowhere for me to like, raise cane and ask why, why this is happening. And God forbid, I asked for a refund because there was this lovely, no refund policy because of the nature of the digital product and dah, dah, dah, which I understand. But it's like, you need to deliver on what you promise. You promise all of these things on your sales page. And I have re I have re none of these results now I'm out of, and I still have my problem. So what do I do? I bounce to the next person who, again, promises, Oh, this person failed you. I won't fail you. And that's what happened. What ended up happening. I started having conversations with friends in the business and stuff like that and got lots of head nods and lots of, yeah, that's really what happens.

Speaker 4: But I, and I don't know why this happens and I don't know who can fix it. And that was my like DNA. Clearly there's an opportunity here because if I'm having conversations with people, they recognize that there was a problem. And based on my experience, I have over 10 years of corporate experience and creating initiatives and designing processes of a sell, save companies money, but I'm also a certified coach and business trainer. So can I lean on my corporate experience and lean on my sales, coaching, and business training experience to turn the tide of this sinking

Speaker 3: Ship. And

Speaker 4: That's how I pivoted from time management productivity to customer journey. And the moment I pivoted, all of a sudden, everybody wanted to have a conversation because, and it's funny because when I tell people a lot of what I talk about traditional you, this is how you experienced traditional business. When you go to Ikea and you buy a desk, you get planks. But by golly, there is,

Speaker 3: I say, manual in English, in little people, words,

Speaker 4: You know, what, what, what piece of wood goes with the other? And if you can't figure it out, there was a return PR return policy, or you can call the ICAT people. And they'll tell you how to put the desk together. But we're here on online business. And you're your online business coach or creator quote, unquote, you all can see, but I have air quotes here.

Speaker 3: They're sending you planks. They're sending planks

Speaker 4: To your home and they're saying, but I sent you a desk.

Speaker 3: No problem, no, you sent me planks. I don't know how to put this together. You told me

Speaker 4: You would help me solve my problem. And here I am still with the problem now, equally frustrated. And now I don't even trust myself because this is yet more confirmation that I'm inept in some way. So not only are you taking away my money and my resource, but you're taking away my confidence in myself,

Speaker 3: Like this is not okay. And so this is,

Speaker 4: This is why, if anybody has ears to hear, I designed come to life with customer journeys that you enjoy, right?

Speaker 3: And that positions you as the expert that you are. And still,

Speaker 4: It was the power back to the person with the problem, because that's, again, that's, that's the power of, of a problem. That's unsolved is it takes away. It takes something away from you.

Speaker 3: Think about it. If you, if

Speaker 4: You have something that you need to solve and you know that that's the sticking point between you and a goal that you have, you're searching high and low under the sofa on the Googles. And, and you're asking everybody, you know, because you don't want to live with this problem, but if you could solve it on your own, you wouldn't need help. And so, as a coach, as a creator, as somebody who can see the transformation, that is your job, is to give the power back to that person and say, Hey, you can do this. And I'm just here to help. I'm just here to facilitate your, but all the wins are yours. And as someone who has experienced what it's like to not have a creator say, Hey, I believe in you. And Hey, I see the transformation, not just for Sally and Amy and all the other people on my webinar, but I see it for you to Sola. That's, that's empowering to me. And that's the reason I do what I do.

Speaker 2: Oh my gosh. So sorry. That was a mouthful, but no, you guys can't see me, but I'm just sitting here nodding, because I experienced all of that too in the beginning. And you know, for me, it manifested as like, okay, my business idea is not good. I need to change my business idea and find a new course to help me change my business idea, finding a new course to help me change my business. Like, and I was just like, I, you know, I felt like a lost because I just was like, something's wrong, but I want it so bad. And they seem to understand how bad I want it, because clearly they get me, I'm reading the sales page, you know? And I, I really never thought about it until talking to Sasha, Cora above on her podcast. And now talking to you is like, it's just, it seems a little predatory, you know?

Speaker 2: And I never really thought of it like that because I was thinking like, Oh, there's just something wrong with me. And I'm sure you're just like me where I'm like, Oh, the minute I get in there, I do everything. Like there's no stone left unturned. I show up to every single thing, complete every single module, do all the things across all the T's dot all the I's like you, if I'm buying it, I'm not going to be leaving it on the shelf and not opening it. And then saying I'm going to be going through every single thing. And it did, it left me feeling like I knew something was wrong with me. Something was wrong with my business. Something was broken, so I can totally relate to that. I just didn't get mad about it. And I feel like I should have, I guess I just accepted it as like, I just accepted it as like, there's something like, I just need to work harder. I just need to do this. Yes. And many people do. And I just, and I honestly,

Speaker 4: Honestly, I think part of the reason I got mad is because I had to go back and tell my husband that like, yeah, we, I invested in that thing. It didn't work my bed that's money. We could have used for something else

Speaker 2: That I got from me. I got around that by spending business revenue back on those things. So I didn't, Oh yeah. It was all just like, so I can't just be like, you know, less busy over here doing its thing. I'm not taken out of here stating itself. I'm not taking out of our cows. So all these failures are just mine to bear inside of me and I'll just move it and move along. Yeah.

Speaker 4: It's having, it's having, I think that's what made, it made me mad because it's the shame of having an accountability person, like someone that I have to go back and tell, and he never thank God. Like I love my husband. He never, and he, to this day, my hair brain, all my harebrained ideas are usually like, after the presentation, I usually get a yes for it. He supports everything I do. But then to come back and say, Hey, I failed again. That's the part like, it's okay for two, one time. But now I've shifted over to another creator who I thought was better than this past creator. And then in having conversations with people, they're like, well, this is just how it happens. And I'm like, but you wouldn't exactly what I told you at the top of this podcast, you would burn the Starbucks down for this crap.

Speaker 4: Are you kidding? You invested how much. And they said, what and exactly what you said, you were like, I feel like there's something wrong with me. And I just bored. And I just kept going. And the problem with that though, is where does that go? Exactly. It's still there. But every other decision you make for your business, you second guess yourself, because remember you're the person who made that investment that didn't do anything to, why do you think this one's going to pan out? Why do you think someone else is going to invest in you? If you can't, even if you don't, if your picker's wrong, how do you know that the person who's trying to pick you? How do you know their picker's not right.

Speaker 2: Right. I think that that really affected me for a long time before I fixed this problem. Um, myself, thank you very much is like, you know, if not believing, like not believing in myself enough to ask people to, to invest with me. Yeah. So it did, it caused longer term damage than what I realized.

Speaker 4: Yeah. Yeah. And that's one of the things I teach my people or my clients, or at least I show them is there's a responsibility when someone invests in you, because they're saying, I choose you to help me solve my problem. As a matter of fact, when they say it, they say, I choose you to solve my problem. You as the creator, and as the owner have to turn around and say, no booboo, you choose me to help you because you're going to do this by yourself. I'm just going to be here to hold your hand. But that's where, I mean, that instant, that disconnect. And you see it even in online business, right? Like people are very quick to promote their, their milestones. I reached a hundred K this was my 40 K launch. And look at, look at all these sales notifications, let me show you a business or a video of the scrolls.

Speaker 4: Let me show you the names on my wall and all of these things. But how often do you really step back and think about like what it's like to be the person with the problem, what it's like to be someone who's just like, look like this is my last, or this is my only, or even if it's not my last or my only do I have a problem that you're the expert at. That means I I'm here. Y'all can't see me. But my hand is, is, is below and you're here. And so I'm looking up to you for a solution. I'm looking for a hand to reach out and you're like, yeah, I've got your hand. Pay me for stuff. If you, if you've ever watch Latin. One of my favorite, uh, Disney movies where Jafar, the cave is open Latin, hanging by a thread on the cliff.

Speaker 4: You know, the, the Tiger's about to like swallow him up and he reaches out his hand and he's like, take my hand. Like I'm, I'm about to fall down and far, it's like, give me the lamp first. And so he hands him, the lamp and Jafar kicks him back into the cave. That's how I fell. That's how people feel. You kick them back into the cave. Thank you for the payment. It went through, you know, you've got two more payments of one 97 or what have you, but here's your login and password. There's nowhere to ask questions to nowhere, you know, for them. And, and, and there's no messaging. There's no messaging to remind them that, Hey, all of that stuff that I showed you in the webinar, all of that stuff that we did in the challenge, all of that stuff that we did in the, in the summit, those weren't just words. I see it for you. And I'm doubling down and I'm, I'm telling you that you can do this and we don't get that. We don't get that as clients. And that's all part of your responsibility. That's all part of your promise. Anything you put on the sales page, if you're not coming back and doubling back to make sure that the people that pay you achieve the same thing you put on yourself, sales page, you need a new sales page, or you need to go back and help those people.

Speaker 2: So good. So can we talk about like, what that means when you're helping your customers create a delightful customer journey? Like, what does that look like? Yeah.

Speaker 4: So I do this in two ways. I have a group program, which I think by the time this launches, we would have just completed enrollment for the second, uh, for the second launch. So if you want to hear more about that, you may have to get on the wait list, but I do also help, uh, one-on-one through VIP days, if you're interested in that, please come find me on Instagram at de Sola Davis. But there are, let me describe the customer journey first. And then we'll talk about like how that works. There are five stages. I call it, you go from stranger to fan and incidentally, that's the name of my VIP day and the name of my program, strangers to fans. Um, this, everybody starts as a stranger. If you've never heard me before today on this podcast, I am a stranger to you. You're trying to decide whether you care enough to spend any more time with me than pressing pause and switching over to different podcasts, which I certainly hope you stay

Speaker 2: Right. Stay. This is good stuff.

Speaker 4: I'm a stranger to you right now. And so you're making, you're trying to make a decision as to whether or not you want to spend any more of your time with me. If you decide the answer is yes, then you move into what I call the audience as an audience member. Maybe you, you now start peripherally following me on Instagram. Maybe you even decide that you want to be a part of my email list because you got a freebie from you, whatever, as an audience member, think of it as like those like open air market things like a farmer's market comes to town and you go from vendor to vendor and you're picking up the tomatoes and putting down, you

Speaker 3: Walk over to pineapples and pick up pineapples and put them down. You're not super invested. Like you want to know what's going on, but you're not like, I'm not like the one voice that you're listening to. Right? So at that audience level, I want to move you into prospect level as a prospect. Now you're really considering working with me now, you're watching every word that comes out of my mouth. Now you're reading every free content. Maybe you've invested in some low risks, like low tickety thing, just to get an idea of whether it makes sense for us to work together. I'm maybe one of three to five options that you're really thinking about at this point. If you decide that I'm the one and I get the rows, then you move into customer level. And that's the level where I become your solution, because you decided that out of the three to five, you're at your American idol, you're the person I want to go with.

Speaker 3: This is not the end of the customer journey. This is where a lot of people stop. And as a matter of fact, you're not a customer. To me, you're a sales notification. I've gotten what I want out of it. Now it's up to you, chemo Sabi, to figure out whether you need to figure out your path. This is where our paths diverged. This is not the end of the journey. Y'all okay. After they become a customer. And after you help them facilitate a transformation that you promise them. When they were a prospect, they become what I call a fan. Okay. They become an ambassador or a fan. And what happens there is once you solve that one problem for them, they look at their finish line and they turn back and they look at you and they say, what other problems can we solve altogether?

Speaker 3: Yeah, this is how they become a repeat buyer. And at that point you have to facilitate, you have to figure out how you can remain relevant for them and how you can remain a resource for them to help them, not just solving a problem anymore at that customer level, but to align with their vision, whatever that looks like. And however you can be sourceful in that way. Okay. This was also the part where they go, how can I get more of my friends here so that they can experience what just happened to me? This is so the level where you want to ask them to share their stories so that when a prospect comes in and is looking at their three to five options, you can say, Hey, can I connect you with an ambassador? That's already achieved the transformation so that they can tell you what their story was when they were a prospect and how it was for them to be a customer in my, in my world. And now you have other people sharing your dream and your vision and your message in their own words. That's how you duplicate yourself. And that's how you build a raving fan base. And that's how you design a business that you actually love with people. You actually love to serve.

Speaker 2: Uh, we resonate so much on how we, how we do business and how we value everything. I'm just like, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes. I think the part where you talk about, you know, you now you have ambassadors, right? Like you have facilitated, facilitated a transformation, and now this person wants to tell the world about you. I think that is basically the, how I've marketed my business. And I do it through, I do it a lot through my free content too, but like my paid content as well. It's like, I'm like, make it so good for them that they want to tell other people, like people want to save the day for their friends. Right? So all their friends that have the problem, they want to sweep in and save the day. And if you saved the day for them, they're going to tell their friends about you.

Speaker 2: And then they get to feel like they saved the day. Even though they're not solving the problem for their friend, they're connecting that their friend with you. I love that. I talk about the concept of like, you know, on the audience building side, like the share-worthy freebie, like no, give your best stuff away for free to get to, to build the audience. And then, you know, then your time spent facilitating that transformation on the customer level. I just absolutely. It's, it's the most rewarding way to do business too. And I think there's the, the allure of passive income. Right. So can we like, can we talk about like, so I feel like people fall into the trap. I think you described earlier of I make the thing. I, I invest all of my time marketing the thing, but I don't do anything after people buy the thing I'm out. Like I've already made the thing I job.

Speaker 3: Yeah. Laptop watch. So it's just dumping money into Facebook ads because I'm feeding my son. Right. Cause that's what they said. He didn't see the funnel and,

Speaker 2: And the moment you stop feeding the funnel, everything dries up.

Speaker 3: Exactly. Right. Exactly. Right. So what do you do? Do you spend more money? Do you pivot to something else? Do you run a sale or what have you, but it's funny that you mentioned passive income because you can automate quote unquote sure. Can't automate the relationship, but there are certain processes that you'll know where to, where to step in exactly what I said it takes while you're making all the things. It takes two seconds to craft an email that goes out perhaps an hour after the sale is made to say, Hey, I doubled down on everything. I said, I didn't just take your money. I expect you to do the work. And so you're going to hear from me in this way, this way and this way, it takes one hour of your time, once a month to pop and be a face and answer

Speaker 4: Questions and just be there to say, Hey, I didn't go shoot I'm here. You don't have to take everybody as a one-to-one client, just be there so that when they look around and they feel like they're not worthy when they look around, they feel like they can't do it. You're back there as a guide to say, no, no, you got this. And when you, when you, when not, if, when you, when I want you to come back and tell me and tell all these other people, because you're not the only person struggling with not knowing how to do this. And I love what you said initially about saving the day, because what happens when you remember again, it makes, it starts to make sense to you. If you can always put the problem that the customer has back in focus, not just you and your laptop lifestyle, but the problem that the customer has, right?

Speaker 4: You're not just an entertainer. You've said that you're a business owner who can solve problems. So don't do that. It's like a phone that can't call people. Yes, I have. I can get on Facebook on my phone. Yes, I can get on Instagram. Yes. I can play candy crush, but can I call my mom? Because that's what you said you could do for me and solve this problem. So yes, I have this laptop lifestyle. Yes. I'm hitting all my sales goals because my sales page is converting, but am I actually solving problems for people? Are the testimonials still rolling in years later that say that there's problems still getting solved. If you're still using testimonials from, I wouldn't even say two years ago, you need to go back to check to see whether or not you're still solving those problems. Because if you're not, then you need to go back to basics on that.

Speaker 4: And what I was talking about with regards to like automating, like I said, you can send an email, you can jump on a one hour monthly call. You can create a bond Bureau that goes out at a specific time. You know, you should know because it's your product. You're the creator, right? You're the CEO, you're the boss lady. Do you know what module is going to have them stuck? What is your plan to support them and move them from that stuck point so that they can advance and transformation? What is the incentive that you're going to give them to say, Hey, get up one more time. Like, I know this is hard. Get up one more time. I've got, I've got you here. Get up one more time. And if they need even more help to show them how they can get even more help in a way that gives the power back to them. And these are all of the things while we're creating and doing the set it and forget it that we don't think about because all of this has to do with the person actually getting their transformation and not just you making your sales goals.

Speaker 2: Oh, that's so good. Can you talk a little bit more about what you mean by when you say in a way that gives their power back to them? What do you mean?

Speaker 4: I think one of your biggest responsibilities when they become your customer is to continue to show them that they can do this, that they are the ones solving the problem. At no point it will happen, but at no point, do you want to believe that you are the reason that person had the transformation? Because you're not God, you don't know how you got here. And again, I can't help myself. Y'all my God girl. Please stay with me. You're you don't know how you got here. So you cannot be the master and owner of their transformation. As a matter of fact, it creates a negative dependent relationships in a way that your customer can not be independent and cannot grow on their own without you. And it makes you, it makes you, uh, someone that they, if someone that they're more codependent on versus someone who can be indispensable to them.

Speaker 4: Okay? So what you want as a coach and as the creator is to show them is to hold the mirror up to them and say, Hey, you are your own solution. I'm just going to reframe this problem in a way that you can attack it. And you can use, what's already been inside you to win. When I designed customer journeys from my clients, when I do it, even through one-to-one, we do something called a secret sauce, uh, session. And in that secret sauce session, I asked them a lot of things. And, and, and by the time we get to the secret sauce statement, which is essentially a messaging about their unique positioning statement, I use their words to help them define that so that they can share that with other people. I don't tell them this is who you are. So these are this. When is you?

Speaker 4: Because if you don't give me words, I can't tell you what your unique positioning statement is. If you don't have a product that facility taste transformation, I can not design a journey. If you don't have strengths, I cannot tell you key conversion tool. You having a key conversion tool in my world is an experience that you create that leverages your authority and puts you in a position of it's. It's like that, that date. When you want to ask them to be your girlfriend, you don't want to take them on a day. I just did a video recently. You don't want to take them on a date. Like if you've never been a CrossFit, that's not the day that we go to CrossFit. That's not the day because you don't want to look like a wipie pants. Legit. That is a scientific word. You don't want to look like a wimpy pants.

Speaker 4: You want look in your position. You want to exhibit your position of strength. You want to do something that you're great at. You want to show them that you're an authority and what better way to do that than to do something that leverages your strengths. So if you're great on video, then there's going to be a video component because they need to see you at your best. If you're more of a data person, then there's probably like a template that does like magical things, because you want them to see you at your best. And so when we're designing all of that, if you have no, Oh, strengths, there is no journey. If you have no product that actually works, there is no journey. So at the end, yeah, I love it. When you come out with a clear secret sauce statement that you now share with people

Speaker 3: Who actually need what you have the most and a journey that you can do on repeat, that gives you energy. It gives you life. You can't turn to me and be like the solar. You did all of this, and you will perhaps to solar, you did all of this. I can't believe you did this. Thank you so much. You did it. I couldn't have done this without you. That's likely true. But the, the, the moral statement is you did it. You did it. I didn't do that. That was you. And it's something rewarding about being the Yoda that gives the power back to Skywalker right there. That's why you're the expert. That's why you're the coach. That's why you were the coach. And again, think about it with sports, but they can't. The players would turn around and say, man, if not for coach, blah, blah, blah, we wouldn't have won.

Speaker 3: The championship. Coach was not on the, was not on the court. That was all y'all. It was not me. I can stand here and fire, breathe and yell and scream and throw my clipboard down and whatever, if y'all don't do what I tell you to do, there is no transformation. And so you have to get really good at reminding people, Hey, you did this and having a moment to celebrate them because they likely won't do it for themselves. Again, these are all the responsibilities you have when it's your product, when you're the creator. And when you're the coach,

Speaker 2: That is so powerful. It's like, you know, I was just thinking, while you were saying, that's like, I'm literally just here to help you see how amazing and powerful you are. Like when you are helping people find their secret sauce, they probably answer all these questions. And then when it comes down to that last thing, say some random corporate stuff that has nothing to do with any of the goodness that they gave you up until the moment that like, now you have to write the thing and then it comes out. Like we weren't even talking about anything related to that. You're here. You're there to help them see the greatness in themselves when they can't see it. Yeah. And you know, I think like, yes, selling your first product is amazing and selling your hundredth product is amazing. But what feels amazing is to watch the people go through that transformation.

Speaker 2: And also, if you're not a part of that, you don't see where people get stuck. You don't see where you can improve your product. You're not seeing any of that. And you can have such a bigger impact and help so many more people and help people have results faster. If you just show up, that's the most fun part. The marketing part can be fun. But personally, I feel like the fun part is like, okay, now you're in like you're in with us and this community. And we all just want to see you win. And that's what we're here for going into home sucks. Like it's not fun. So why would you, if you don't want to that, why would you like have your customers do that? Yeah,

Speaker 4: Yeah. A hundred percent. And it's so funny because the people who feel like selling is sleazy or marketing is, is just like a bother. And it's just like this thing that you have to do. And you just got to put your face on and smile for the camera and all these things want that they want a community. They want a place that they can celebrate their people, but they don't know how to, how to get from here to there. And so that's what I, and, and unfortunately, most of the noise out there says, use this specific funnel, use this specific process, use this specific whatever. And they're still out there trying to try non Armour's, trying to figure out which fits. And so all I'm saying is all of these things, all of these different funnels, all of these different avenues, all of those things are just tools.

Speaker 4: You have to decide what works for you. You have to create an individualized journey where, you know, immediately, if a person comes into my audience, this is what I want them to see first. And I love what you said about shareable freebies or share where they free freebies was what you said, giving them your best. And I told people this all the time, you cannot possibly get everything I have to give you. There is not enough time in the world. I can speak to you for an hour, but you're not spending every waking moment with me. So I guarantee you there's more in the tank. So if you like, what you hear now, if you like what you're downloading now, imagine an extended period of time with yours truly. And that's what you're trying to facilitate. But when they come into your audience, you need to already know that like, this is their biggest, this is your biggest question.

Speaker 4: And so this is the content, or this is the solution I'm going to put in, in their direction to answer that question so that they move from audience to prospect. As the expert, you need to know where your people are so that you can facilitate their, their journey. And you can then lead them to a place where you ask them, you invite them into transformation. And then they have the, the decision to say yes or no or not right now or whatever. But you have to know like bird's eye view because I'm, it's my thing. You're in my community. It's like, you know, going somewhere and you're asking for directions and the owner of the place is like, Oh no, that's ridiculous. You need to know if there's anybody that needs to know this. It needs to be you. So you come in and you're like, okay, you're at the audience level. And this is how you're describing your problem. At this point. You just want to know whether I understand it. Here's a solution that shows you that not only do I understand it, I'm just going to reframe it really quickly to let you know that there is a solution, right there. Some people that it's just like, video's never going to be great for me. I'm always going to suck at video. That's just not my thing. I just feel like there's so much, so many other people that do video better than me.

Speaker 2: And if you're, if your secret sauce

Speaker 4: Is that you help introverts get better at video that at that my audience resource

Speaker 3: Is going to say his issue, his issue, his issue. Great. What if he thought of video as insert introvert perspective here? Something that the inter, you know, if you, if you, what if I told you that you could forget that the camera was on and just speak from your heart and that's enough. Boom. Now there's a solution. And now I'm more into now, I'm leaning in because now you're just saying, I'm just like, I don't have to live with this for the rest of my life. Nope. So listening. And then as a prospect, I'm showing you the solution that, that says I can, you're asking me if I can solve your problem. And I'm telling you that you can solve your problem and I'm going to help you. So here's an environment that I'm going to show you a quick win really quick to show you that, Hey, you've got, you've got a little something.

Speaker 3: Yeah. All right. So spend a little bit more time with you. Here's that quick win. And now if you want more things like this, this is what working with me looks like. And at that point they can say, yes, not right now, ask all the questions that they have. Well, how many other people, because you know, this is where the, the, the snowflakes come out. My problem is different from everybody else's problem on the planet, because I was born with eyes are just a little bit further distance than other people's eyes. And you've never worked with anybody with more distant eyes, all these, all this other stuff that makes your product, not the right fit for them. This is where you answer all those questions. This is where you get the ambassadors to come in and say, Hey, you know, this, this is what happened with me.

Speaker 3: My eyes were also a little bit further distance apart. We were able to move the eyes just a little bit closer with camera that we use, yada, yada, that's what you do. That's and you need to know where they are in the journey to be like up this person's playing unicorn. Let me see what tool I have in the tank to help them to help guide them to a decision or, Oh, this person's not my prospect. They're still at the audience level. Let me see what other solutions I can direct them to if they're, and you can even tell from the I didn't level, like once you have a journey, you're like up there during the audience level, but they're not my person. How can I divert them to other people? And that's the power of having a journey that's individualized and knowing exactly who you're talking to. So I hope that exercise was great.

Speaker 2: It was incredible. And you know, the whole time I'm thinking, I'm just like, you know, if, if listeners out there, if you can think of marketing has literally nothing to do with you. I think that people get so hung up on like my credentials, my experience, my credibility, my expertise is like, it's not about you. And it, when you can step out of that, it is so much easier to just be like, Hey, you're struggling. I can help you with that. Here's how, and I'm going to give you all of the information I'm going to invite you to, to, uh, I'm going to invite you to like, see if you want the information for, and then if you want the information, I'm going to give you all of the information that you need to, like you said, I'm going to guide you to a decision. I've never heard. It said that way before. I like, I'm going to give you all of the information to make the best decision for you that you are confidently in or out. I don't want you to feel FOMO at the end of the day. I want you to be like, so in or so out at the end, at the end of the day. And like you said, if it's not right for you, I'm going to tell you because I don't want you like coming in and not having success, not having. Yeah.

Speaker 4: And, and so, and it's funny because especially again, when you have the clarity to communicate your message and you have the confidence in your customer journey, you are able to, it does it doesn't hurt your feelings. When people say, no, it doesn't hurt your feelings. One of two things happen. One, you go, yeah, it's not a right fit. It's not the right fit. What you're asking for is not something, you know, what you can and cannot deliver on your sales page is more truthful, right? So this is not really what deliver, or this is not a good fit or there's a misalignment of values or whatever, or it's a not right now. Okay. You don't have the resources to invest ball blood. Well, here, this is, this is how you can win so that you have the resources to invest, or you feel bad because you're like, Oh, you're in a position to say yes.

Speaker 4: And you just said, no, and I'm the person you need the most. And I'm so sorry. You're going to have to live with that problem for a little while longer or settle for a less than, for a less than solution. Because especially like I said, we do a secret sauce exercise first, which incidentally, like I wasn't even going to add it to my VIP day. And now I can't imagine doing a VIP day without it. Um, and I even included it. I included the exercise in my group program and that's all my clients talk about now, which I'm like, I'm a customer journey designer. And you go tell other people that I do secret sauce work, which is crazy to me. Like we do all bunch of other things. And this is the only thing you remember. Um, but when you discover your secret sauce, you realize that this is the thing that I am best at in the world.

Speaker 4: And that's why you feel bad for people because you're like, you're not gonna find it. It doesn't exist because I'm it. And you have the confidence in yourself to know that. So when you walk away, when people walk away from a sale, or when you finish a launch, if it's a group program or an online product or whatever, and you have this many people, you know, you have your whatever pool of leads, your pool of leads has maybe a thousand people and you enroll a hundred people into your program. For example, you feel bad for the other 900. Cause you're just like, doors are closed. I guess it's going to be all.

Speaker 4: And you don't turn around. And you're like, Oh my God, it's only a hundred people. Like, you feel bad, you feel bad. And it's good. It's a great position to be in when you realize what you're the expert at and who you're looking for. And when you're keyed into your message and those people show up, you're like, you're my peoples. And I can help you. And I'm confident in the fact that I can help you because I've seen your transformation so many times, and I know what it's going to feel like, again, going back to the emotion, I know it's what it's going to feel like when you, when you feel like you have that power back and I'm just so honored to be on the journey with you as you take it back for yourself.

Speaker 2: Ah, so powerful. And like, of course, no wonder they're telling people about the secret sauce. Cause that's the transformational moment that they go through when they work with you. That makes them, it's the domino that knocks down all the other dominoes, right? Without that piece, they are not going to successfully execute all the rest of everything that you're telling them. And I love how you have it structured because it's just like, Oh, the first thing we did is me giving you your power, like giving it to you. Cause you can't give it. But like, you know, you see it helping you see what you brought into this. I'm just dusting it off for you. So dusting off the mirror so you can see.

Speaker 4: Yeah, exactly. It's exactly what I do. And I tell people that, and I love that. We're so aligned. And I'm so jazzed about this right now is I tell them all you're doing is you're holding the mirror up long enough for the focus to become clear for them. And for them to realize that they've been looking at their own selves the whole time. Yeah,

Speaker 2: We could talk, I could talk to you for another hour about that. So we need to follow up. So we need to do something else together. This is to be continued because we only have a few minutes left. I normally ask a few questions at the end, but you've answered so many of them. It's been a pep talk. This whole thing has been a pep talk for the side hustlers. So, um, I am going to ask you the question that I ask every single person that comes on to this podcast. And that is what belief about yourself. Did you have to change to get where you are today?

Speaker 4: Ooh, so good. I would say, I'll say this and I think this was a, another pep talk for the side. Hustlers. The reason, the reason that secret sauce is a first thing that I do with people is it was the first thing I had to do for myself. And you need to know that what you have in you is valuable. It's enough. You don't need more licensure. You don't need more certifications. You don't need any more courses. You don't need, you don't need any more logistics. You don't need any more planning. The reason that you're even standing out and stepping out to say that I want to run a business is because there's something inside of you. That's priceless that you want to share a little bit of with a community, whether that's large or small and it doesn't have to look like what everybody else is doing to be valuable.

Speaker 4: And just because other people don't think it's, doesn't make it any less valuable. And you need to believe in the value that you hold on your own. Before you try to convince other people of the value that you provide. That was a hard lesson to learn. And then so much then sometimes I learn every day and sometimes I have to write it down and say it 10 times until my brain, until my body starts to align with what my brain is telling it. But you are, you are infinitely valuable already by yourself, diamond in the rough. Again, going back to the lab, you're already, it's already in you. The power is already in you, regardless of what the problem is, you just need the right, find the right facilitator to show you to hold the mirror up long enough for you to see yourself in it. That's it.

Speaker 2: You got chills, chills, chills. That was so good. And that is the perfect place to wrap up this episode. I'm so sad that we're wrapped. Literally talk to you. I have so many more questions, but like I said, we'll have to, to be continued. Um, can you let everybody know where they can connect with you and learn from you and just be, be in your, uh, in your audience, move from the stranger to audience. I hope you stay till the end. You guys, because now we're besties.

Speaker 4: So, um, to get in my audience, I am always on Instagram. I'm now doing reels where I dance. Um, so if you just,

Speaker 2: What a laugh, that's a place to go.

Speaker 4: I might Instagram at the SOA Davis. I would love to meet you. Please send me a DM and let me know how we know each other. Cause I love to know how, uh, my new besties come into my world. And if you're coming from this podcast, I'm just saying that's like a fast lane to like the inner circle for real. Okay. So please come say, Hey,

Speaker 2: Uh, so good. So everyone go to Shannon matter.com/three, three seven. I will link up every way you can connect with the Sola. Please go be in her world. This is, this is how you're going to like, this is how we do want my business. This is how it's going to be fulfilling and for you all the way around, like I'm so, uh, I'm just so glad you came on the show. Um, so yes. So Shannon madder.com/three, three seven. And thank you. Thank you for all of your wisdom. Thank you so

Speaker 4: Much for having me. It's such a pleasure.

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